BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[Saint Steven]

(it seems) About 14 false statements all rolled into one post 356 .... (not a record though)

Hmm... I thought you had posted more than that. I better recount. - lol

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

362, 361, 360, 359, 358, 357, there it is: post 356. Nope, not mine.

 

[Saint Steven]

And the only way to be IN CHRIST is to DIE TO THE LAW THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST!! The law brings wrath, but where there is no LAW there is no transgression, and Christ is the END OF THE LAW!! A person must first DIE WITH CHRIST to be married to another, and that is only by FAITH in the one who died for our sins! Our old man (body ruled by sin) had to die. A person is only made righteous and Holy in the Father’s eyes AFTER they have been reconciled IN THE BODY OF HIS FLESH THROUGH DEATH!!

Colossians 1:21-22
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled *in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight

Where to begin. This is one tangled mess of conflicting doctrine. A patchwork quilt of mismatching scriptural snippets that only make it sound biblical.

I'm trying to imagine this post being used as a street evangelism tract.

Speaker: "the only way to be IN CHRIST is to DIE TO THE LAW THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST!!"
Listener: Say what?
Speaker: "The law brings wrath, but where there is no LAW there is no transgression, and Christ is the END OF THE LAW!!"
Listener: I'm not sure what that means. What law are you talking about?
Speaker: "A person must first DIE WITH CHRIST to be married to another, and that is only by FAITH in the one who died for our sins! Our old man (body ruled by sin) had to die."
Listener: So you are looking for martyrs? No thanks.
Speaker: "A person is only made righteous and Holy in the Father’s eyes AFTER they have been reconciled IN THE BODY OF HIS FLESH THROUGH DEATH!!"
Listener: So I can be saved after I die? Cool, thanks. Are you one of those Universalists?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is one tangled mess of conflicting doctrine. A patchwork quilt of mismatching scriptural snippets that only make it sound biblical.

Yes, just like most false teachings and false gospels are - full of distracting deceptions and half-truths and things to confuse the hearers into thinking it might be okay just to listen to (it is not) .... just trying to get the blind to follow the blind - those who can see run away from the false teachings.

 

[mmksparbud]

Dear Lady: There is exactly one segment of individual who is NOT "hurt" by the Lake of Fire. Who are they?

I have no idea what you are talking about "a segment of an individual"----Not one of the righteous saved will be touched by the 2nd death.

 

[Saint Steven]

So to all those who embrace UR (Universal Reconciliation) and all their no sin doctrines, including the teaching that a person who rejects Christ to the end only dies in their “one sin of unbelief” PLEASE! Show me the scriptures! And I’ll show you the scriptures that prove that those who reject Christ are still under GOD’S WRATH and the condemnation of sin, and if they die without HIM they will surely DIE IN THEIR SINS!! Not just in the one sin of unbelief. A teaching that many have embraced in these last days. A teaching that contradicts the only place where there is no sin... IN CHRIST! There is no “sin free realm” outside of Christ or apart from Christ in ANY WAY! Our old man was never fit to polished, overhauled, or freed from sin. He was only fit to be crucified with Christ! Therefore, if a person rejects Jesus Christ, than they have never crossed over from DEATH to LIFE!

1 John 3:5
And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and IN HIM there is no sin.
What was He manifested to do if not take away our sins? Is there something hidden in this verse? NO! Jesus is salvation from sin! No Jesus, No salvation from sin!

I've never heard of such a thing as a "no sin" doctrine.

Here's a question: What is the purpose of "God's wrath"?

Is God ONLY in the business of punishment? Does he not use discipline to correct us? Is he not merciful and ready to restore his beloved creation? Or is he in the business of destruction? Sounds like you may have God confused with someone else.

John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

 

[Saint Steven]

They embrace this UR teaching because they have strayed from the simplicity that is IN CHRIST. Explain to me where this “sin free zone” is outside of Christ? Tell me how these people who reject Christ are translated into the Kingdom of His Son without dying with Christ and being washed from their sins in His blood? How do they enter the Holiest without going through a veil that was torn, HIS FLESH? How are all these people who reject Christ freed from sin without dying to the law? Everyone ever born in this world, apart from Christ, was born a sinner, and there is no way to be BORN AGAIN unless they first DIE IN THE BODY OF HIS FLESH THROUGH DEATH. If we accept that Jesus is the resurrection and the life, we must also accept that HE AS THE SACRIFICE!

So, we seem to agree that there is salvation after death. Just sayin'.

 

[Hillsage]

The funny thing is, I was just quoting this verse to someone else. The one thing I will say though, is that God's elect go through God's judgement (the fire) here and now, and then the become that lake of fire, that try the wicked, at the second resurrection.

I remember nothing in scripture to support the elect becoming the lake of fire, or carrying out any kind of 'hereafter' judgment for sin personally.

And as for your OT use of fire in the mouth, counter that OT "shadow" with the NT reality of fire in 'your' mouth as a believer.

JAM 3:6 And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is an unrighteous world among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the cycle of nature, and set on fire by hell.

JAM 3:10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brethren, this ought not to be so.

"Ought not be so", but most assuredly it 'is so' in the nominal church filled with pew warmers hanging on to their eternal hell fire life insurance policies.

 

[FineLinen]

I have no idea what you are talking about "a segment of an individual"----Not one of the righteous saved will be touched by the 2nd death.

Dear Lady: good grief.

The fact is the ONLY individuals who are not "hurt" by the 2nd Death (AKA the Lake of Fire) are elite Christians known as "overcomers".

Revelation 2:11 King James Version (KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

 

[Saint Steven]

Is it not Christ who is the ATONEMENT FOR ALL SIN, and that is why redemption through His blood is only IN CHRIST! But if we accept the teachings that remove things from IN CHRIST, than we have already SHIPWRECKED OUR FAITH!!

Right, atonement for ALL sin, not just a select group of individuals.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Saint Steven]

JESUS CHRIST is our ONLY SALVATION FROM SIN, because HE IS REDEMPTION (the act of being saved from sin) And ONLY IN HM do we have redemption through His blood THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS. There is no “sin free zone” apart from our position IN CHRIST. Because only IN HIM has the OLD PASSED AWAY and ALL THINGS BECOME NEW!!

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a new creation; OLD THINGS have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 6:15
For IN CHRIST JESUS neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a NEW CREATION.*

The redemptive act (our justification) was for everyone, not just a select few.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have no idea what you are talking about

... as common it appears, with false teachings, that is on purpose obscuring , it is 'hidden' in darkness... when it comes out in the light, everyone will (or may) get a good laugh or two. .... at least it will all and is all exposed as sinful for now.

 

[Saint Steven]

If we defend IN CHRIST than we defend all that is IN HIM, if we stray from IN CHRIST than we SET ASIDE THE GRACE that has been poured out for us through HIS BODY AND BLOOD!! But we are not of those who take things from IN CHRIST and hand them to the flesh! ABSOLUTELY NOT!! We are the REDEEMED OF THE LORD, WASHED IN THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THE LAMB!! A PEOPLE OF GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, A HOLY NATION, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD who still carry around with us that OLD TREE, and who still preach that simple old old love story to a lonely heart in need of RESCUE! That PRECIOUS STORY of an UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND MERCY demonstrated by a KING WHO TOOK IT ALL AND GAVE IT ALL on a LONELY HILL CALLED CALVARY!!

Grace and Peace…

How do you square Damnationism with "UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND MERCY"?

There is no "Grace and Peace" in Damnationism.
Unless you think you can really enjoy heavenly bliss knowing that below you countless billions are suffering eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape.

 

[mmksparbud]

So, we seem to agree that there is salvation after death. Just sayin'.

Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

When Jesus comes---He comes only for the saved. The rest of the wicked are left dead until after the 1000 years---then the wicked face their resurrection---unto their judgment which is the 2nd death. There is no salvation after death. The only ones that are saved after death are the righteous who die righteous. They are resurrected unto life, the wicked are resurrected unto the 2nd death.


Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Saint Steven]

Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

What comes after the judgment?

Do you believe that God's wrath is pointless? That he would subject the vast majority (countless billions) of those created in his very image to eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape?

Oh wait... I just remembered. You are an Annihilationist. Let me rephrase that. (thanks)

Do you believe that God's wrath is pointless? That he would subject the vast majority (countless billions) of those created in his very image to complete destruction after torturing them horribly? (for no apparent reason) Why not just "exterminate" them mercifully? Why make sport of it?

 

[Saint Steven]

The whole Damnationist thing reminds me of a pagan volcano god. - lol

 

[Der Alte]

...

My dear lady: The "Greek baloney myths" are the foundation of the "real scriptures".
The Lake of Fire radiates with two primary ingredients theion and theioo. I will not tax your patience with the significance of either ingredient or the foundation for both. What I will do is ask you one simple thing>>>
What segment of Adam1 is NOT "hurt" by the 2nd Death AKA, the Lake?

Sentence #1 is itself "baloney."
θεῖον and θεου are different genders of the same word which simply means sulfur.

 

[mmksparbud]

What comes after the judgment?

Do you believe that God's wrath is pointless? That he would subject the vast majority (countless billions) of those created in his very image to eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape?

Oh wait... I just remembered. You are an Annihilationist. Let me rephrase that. (thanks)

Do you believe that God's wrath is pointless? That he would subject the vast majority (countless billions) of those created in his very image to complete destruction after torturing them horribly? (for no apparent reason) Why not just "exterminate" them mercifully? Why make sport of it?

It is not pointless! It does away with all sin--once and for all. And God is justice---they will be punished "according to their works." It is most definitely not for no apparent reason! During the 1000 years everyone will learn why those wicked are lost. Everyone will acknowledge the justice of God---everyone---the sinner, too, will see the justice of his punishment.
Rom_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
They will be exterminated mercifully, they will not be made sport of. All sinners will be ashes, along with Satan and his angels---there will be no more sin and the new earth will be made new. No more tears, no more sorrow, no more pain. What will remain of sin are the scars that Jesus carries---and it is those scars, and the love seen in them by His sacrifice, that sin will never rise again. What God does, He does out of love, not fear. He needs no eternal burning hell to keep the saved from sin---His love, through His scars, will do that.

 

[Saint Steven]

What God does, He does out of love, not fear. He needs no eternal burning hell to keep the saved from sin...

There's a message for the Damnationists.

 

[Saint Steven]

Everyone will acknowledge the justice of God---everyone---the sinner, too, will see the justice of his punishment.
Rom_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

- How can you confess Jesus as Lord without the Holy Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:3)
- How can you confess Jesus as Lord without then being saved? (Romans 10:9)
- The context of the scripture you quoted says the reason Christ died and returned was to be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (Romans 14:9)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. ​