BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[Deade]

Good grief---EGW doesn't enter into it. It's from the bible. Where is the justice for those who have sinned then? Is God with out justice? What do you do with the wages of sin is death? Why bother giving your heart to the Lord---what is the point?

The point is that many Christians in this day and age are deceived. We have 1.4 billion Catholics that are fully into idolatry and think they serve Christ. Have you ever asked yourself the fate of the unsaved. You got yours, right? What about the hope of the rest of the world?

 

[mmksparbud]

My view is "lofty"? (says the Adventist)

We believe that all of creation will be restored.
We view the LOF as a refining fire.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

SO God will force everyone to accept His rule? He could have done that by just getting rid of Satan to begin with---everyone would have served Him from fear--which apparently is what this ends up being---ruling from fear of continued torture in this "refining fire." Yes, that was tried by the Inquisition once.

Well, seems like if you are right---I still don't have anything to worry about for in this life I've gotten to know my God and have had many, many answered prayers and we commune on a constant level and am quite at peace within my relationship with Him. I believe that God will punish the wicked with the 2nd death as He says. I, at most would be in for a surprise, but not an unpleasant one as I have a brother that died shooting up and would love for him to come back---All of you, on the other hand, are in for a very nasty surprise if the 2nd death is real. And if because of your teachi9ng---some one has postponed their getting together with God until it was too late and they died, then his death will be on your head.


Eze_3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze_3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze_33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
Eze_33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

I guess we will all find out very soon.

 

[mmksparbud]

The point is that many Christians in this day and age are deceived. We have 1.4 billion Catholics that are fully into idolatry and think they serve Christ. Have you ever asked yourself the fate of the unsaved. You got yours, right? What about the hope of the rest of the world? View attachment 267205

The hope for the rest of the world is in the same place I got mine---in His word. All any of us can do is to sound the alarm and speak the truth as it has been show to us and God does the rest. We can not force--and neither does God. We are all to go and teach, that is what Jesus said before He left. All we can do is what is set before us. If they reject Him, it is their choice. My husband died over a year ago---it was a long hard battle for 28 years. The last few months were a horrible ordeal---but God fought tooth and nail for him---saved him from certain death 6 times in 2 mths.---including one full blown cardiac arrest.
He came home under hospice and died 2 days later---but not before he gave his heart to the Lord! And in his death I still could cry tears of joy for that. We will rise together to see our God coming. I know this---no one will have any excuse. Everyone will have heard His voice in His heart---and accepted or rejected it.

 

[FineLinen]

SO God will force everyone to accept His rule? He could have done that by just getting rid of Satan to begin with---everyone would have served Him from fear--which apparently is what this ends up being---ruling from fear of continued torture in this "refining fire." Yes, that was tried by the Inquisition once.

Dear Lady: The Living One has no need to force any rebel to accept His rule, He brings each and every one of them into reconcilition by Way of the Flaming Swords.

There is Zero need to force any being to trust Him, that trust comes out of the identical trust one comes to know arising out of union IN/EN the Name of all names.

Take a few moments and watch what happens to an individual who has never seen anything but black and white. This dear lady is precisely how each of us will act when our limited sight has been opened to Him & His Restitution!

 

[martymonster]

I remember nothing in scripture to support the elect becoming the lake of fire, or carrying out any kind of 'hereafter' judgment for sin personally.

And as for your OT use of fire in the mouth, counter that OT "shadow" with the NT reality of fire in 'your' mouth as a believer.

JAM 3:6 And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is an unrighteous world among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the cycle of nature, and set on fire by hell.

JAM 3:10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brethren, this ought not to be so.

"Ought not be so", but most assuredly it 'is so' in the nominal church filled with pew warmers hanging on to their eternal hell fire life insurance policies.

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Oba 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

 

[zoidar]

Slippery ground for me who rests in it being an "after Christ" question.

COL 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Hence, we have the Calvinists quoting all scriptures which support that 1/2 truth indoctrinated POV.


Being spirit saved....or 'born again' is not a 'free will' salvation. You are 'born' of your Father's free will not yours. He who Christ has set FREE has free will. But even then, what do Christians choose? Is it to sin?

JOH 1:12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
So whose will is it in this verse above? The will of you/man, or the will of GOD?

And where do you think you GOT the supposed FREE WILL to believe?

PHI 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Having been in the shoes of believing 'like I was indoctrinated to see/believe from the beginning', I'm more inclined to say you also only have eyes to see/believe what you too have been indoctrinated to see/believe. I see that often when I'm having people read a verse for a doctrinal discussion we're having on salvation, and ask them what they noticed. When I point out what God has showed me, they are astounded that they never 'saw' that before. Tell me what strikes you doctrinally, as you read the verse below.

KJV EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Christ has laid a mission on me, and that is to proclaim the gospel, so that as many as possible will know Christ and be saved.

Yes he has. And that also shows many that they really don't understand where we're coming from. When our church's founding pastor found out I believed in Ultimate Reconciliation/Christian Universalism he made me tell him it was true in a 'meeting' in his office. When I share with him it was true, he was baffled. And, he said; "How can you believe that? You've brought more people into this church than 'anyone else I know of." I told him; "You don't understand why, because you don't understand UR/UNI.

There is a difference between getting people to church and getting people saved.

"KJV EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise"

After we believe we get the Holy Spirit and are saved. What do you want me to see?

"COL 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

It doesn't say philosophy is wrong, it says philosophy after traditions of men is wrong, in other words Gnostisism or Judaism, but also other teachings from man, like universialism.

 

[zoidar]

Universialism fills me with godly anger, not because I don't want everyone to be saved, because I do, but because it's leading people to damnation. So many today fall in this pit, it's so easy to believe, yet it's from the mouth of the enemy. It's quenching the Holy Spirit.

 

[FineLinen]

Universialism fills me with godly anger, not because I don't want everyone to be saved, because I do, but because it's leading people to damnation. So many today fall in this pit, it's so easy to believe, yet it's from the mouth of the enemy. It's quenching the Holy Spirit.

My brother Zoidar: The glorious Gospel fills me with absolute rapture! I once was blind but now I see.

 

[FineLinen]

Dear friends, the Restitution of all things you may not see yet, but rest assured there are colours in our Father’s World. Those colours are in a vast array that when once your eyes are opened you will not know how to respond but in deep sobs of Holy>>>Holy>>>Holy.

Colorblind brothers overwhelm

 

[Saint Steven]

SO God will force everyone to accept His rule?

No.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[Saint Steven]

SO God will force everyone to accept His rule?

No, but that is what the Damnationists and Annihilationists are up to.
"Believe in Jesus, or burn in hell with no hope of escape. Which would you prefer?" Coercion by threat of harm. Mafia stuff. An offer we can't refuse.

 

[Saint Steven]

Well, seems like if you are right---I still don't have anything to worry about for in this life I've gotten to know my God and have had many, many answered prayers and we commune on a constant level and am quite at peace within my relationship with Him.

Right. I hope you don't think I am claiming that you are not saved. That was not my intent. However, you are probably familiar with that stand being taken by your denomination. Those who aren't Adventists are probably lost. (or will be at the final judgment)

 

[Saint Steven]

All of you, on the other hand, are in for a very nasty surprise if the 2nd death is real. And if because of your teachi9ng---some one has postponed their getting together with God until it was too late and they died, then his death will be on your head.

That's a serious consideration.

After weighing the facts I have decided that I would rather be a Universalist and be wrong than a Damnationist and be right.

The greater hope has had a HUGE influence on the way I view life and others. I don't see a world full of hell-bound souls that are not worth my time. I see a world full of souls that will one day bow to Jesus as Lord. They still need to be led to salvation in this lifetime in order to avoid the consequences of not doing so. But God is working in everyone's life at his own pace. People are saved because God saves them, they are not lost because we didn't save them.

 

[Saint Steven]

Eze_3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze_3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze_33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
Eze_33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

I agree that we will be held accountable for those in our sphere of influence that we did not witness to. My best friend is agnostic. And I don't hide my faith from anyone. On the other hand, I don't run around beating people over the head with my Bible either.

Consider this. There are a growing number of individuals that will not embrace our God due to our Damnationist or Annihilationist picture of who he is. They could never believe in a God that would do such things. These individuals would obviously be more receptive to a gospel that comes from those of the Universalist POV.

With that in mind, it might be a good idea to be a bit more open to the possibility that we have something important to offer, even if you don't agree with it completely. I have provided a biblical basis, have I not?

Imagine if you and I were at a public social event, not a church event. We were meeting new people and the subject of religion came up. Someone gave their opinion that they could not believe in a God that throws people in hell. Which of us is better equipped to minister to that person?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Universialism fills me with godly anger, not because I don't want everyone to be saved, because I do, but because it's leading people to damnation. So many today fall in this pit, it's so easy to believe, yet it's from the mouth of the enemy. It's quenching the Holy Spirit.

If you want what we want, and what God wants, what is the problem? I find it very odd that you seem to think people are going to Hell for not believing they are going to Hell. I have even pointed out that believing in Hell may be blasphemy.

Our message should be greeted with joy.

 

[Saint Steven]

The tendency, which I have noticed, is to make the three different doctrines of the final judgement a divisive thing. This is very unfortunate.

I was actually disowned by a sister in Christ over this issue. She thought I had joined a religious cult. A complete over-reaction, obviously.

Newsflash: I am still a Christian. I did not abandon my faith when I embraced the greater hope. I still accept other Christians regardless of their position on the final judgment. And so can you.

This topic and those who side with the OP against the greater hope are doing the body of Christ a disservice. IMHO

1 Corinthians 12:12
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.

 

[Hillsage]

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Oba 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

I read your scriptural quotes the first time. Sorry, they take on different interpretations when seen from above and not from below.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you want what we want, and what God wants, what is the problem? I find it very odd that you seem to think people are going to Hell for not believing they are going to Hell. I have even pointed out that believing in Hell may be blasphemy.

Our message should be greeted with joy.

A forever burning hell is a precious possession to Damnationists. If you try to take it away they will fight you tooth and nail. Here's the question for them.

What do you like best about hell? (since you refuse to let it go)

 

[Saint Steven]

1 Corinthians 12:15-26
Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

 

[Hillsage]

There is a difference between getting people to church and getting people saved.

Oh I'm sorry. You're challenging me to a spiritual urination contest. OK, you're on. I was the vice chair person for bringing the Impact World Tour to our little town of 25,000 20 years ago. We rented the largest building in town for a week. There were 700+ conversions in that week. I know of no other evangelistic event that was ever bigger in our town history. Even when David Wilkerson came in the early 70's we only filled the high school gym for one night. But Dave had them come forward and led them all to Christ. I was just the one person chosen by the Lutheran church I was then attending to be part of the massive post event counseling for those who went forward. I was 21. OK, your turn.

After we believe we get the Holy Spirit and are saved. What do you want me to see?

Like I said most miss it, just like you did. Now look at verse and another, and see how you missed the fact that in that verse, (but only in the KJV) holy is not capitalized. The same is true in chapter 4. WHY NOT? Tell me why the translators struggled so much interpreting jus what spirit was being spoken of there, regarding salvation, that they straddled the fence with holy Spirit? BTW in my book....the devil owns the fence.

KJV EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

KJV EPH 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Now tell me why they do this twice, in scripture? FWI you never get the 'promise FROM the Holy Spirit of GOD' when your spirit first gets saved/born again. You get the promised holy spirit of Christ FROM GOD. And that is the same Sspirit Jesus was born with and the same Sspirit which makes you part of the body of Christ. Jesus being the head of that many membered body. But don't try to swim in these waters with me. Let's just stay with the OP's subject.

It doesn't say philosophy is wrong, it says philosophy after traditions of men is wrong, in other words Gnostisism or Judaism, but also other teachings from man, like universialism.

You say Gnostisim and universalism, but I don't see those words in scripture. I do have another parallel verse supporting my view though.

MAT 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

And this was said long before orthodoxy tried to kill the truth that the majority church believed in originally for 500 years.