Best Argument For or Against God's Existence

[Davian]

It was not ancient. It was brand new and designed by the Creator of the universe.
It only needed to stay upright as it had no engine.
Do you know how much room a hibernating turtle, that is not breathing, needs?
And there are no waves or even a breeze mentioned, so it needed not be
ocean worthy. It just needed to be buoyant.

God could have had the Ark carved out of rock if He was looking for dramatic effect.

If you are appealing to magic, God could have merely teleported the animals and peoples he wanted to time after the alleged flood.

 

[Davian]

Oh, ok, well, I'll just pretend like I didn't see it

That's pretty much how it works in these forums.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If you are appealing to magic, God could have merely teleported the animals and peoples he wanted to time after the alleged flood.

If the story needs to get so elaborate in order to be deemed plausible, one wonders why it wouldn't have been easier to pursue other methods of "cleansing the Earth;" methods that do not involve a globally destructive flood, an unseaworthy vessel that needs magic to avoid sinking, and a devastating population bottleneck.

 

[nonbeliever314]

It was not ancient. It was brand new and designed by the Creator of the universe.
It only needed to stay upright as it had no engine.
Do you know how much room a hibernating turtle, that is not breathing, needs?
And there are no waves or even a breeze mentioned, so it needed not be
ocean worthy. It just needed to be buoyant.

God could have had the Ark carved out of rock if He was looking for dramatic effect.

I can move water without touching or handling it.

 

[paulm50]

37 Miracles of Jesus

# Miracle Matthew Mark Luke John
1 Jesus Turns Water into Wine 2:1-11
2 Jesus Heals an Official's Son 4:43-54
3 Jesus Drives Out an Evil Spirit 1:21-27 4:31-36
4 Jesus Heals Peter's Mother-in-Law 8:14-15 1:29-31 4:38-39
5 Jesus Heals Many Sick at Evening 8:16-17 1:32-34 4:40-41
6 First Miraculous Catch of Fish 5:1-11
7 Jesus Cleanses a Man With Leprosy 8:1-4 1:40-45 5:12-14
8 Jesus Heals a Centurion's Servant 8:5-13 7:1-10
9 Jesus Heals a Paralytic 9:1-8 2:1-12 5:17-26
10 Jesus Heals a Man's Withered Hand 12:9-14 3:1-6 6:6-11
11 Jesus Raises a Widow's Son in Nain 7:11-17
12 Jesus Calms a Storm 8:23-27 4:35-41 8:22-25
13 Jesus Casts Demons into a Herd of Pigs 8:28-33 5:1-20 8:26-39
14 Jesus Heals a Woman in the Crowd 9:20-22 5:25-34 8:42-48
15 Jesus Raises Jairus' Daughter to Life 9:18,
23-26 5:21-24,
35-43 8:40-42,
49-56
16 Jesus Heals Two Blind Men 9:27-31
17 Jesus Heals a Man Unable to Speak 9:32-34
18 Jesus Heals an Invalid at Bethesda 5:1-15
19 Jesus Feeds 5,000 14:13-21 6:30-44 9:10-17 6:1-15
20 Jesus Walks on Water 14:22-33 6:45-52 6:16-21



I'm not sure if Saints need one or two miracles under their belt.

List of saints canonized by Pope Francis

Not a jot on some faith healers.

His failure was in converting his own people.

 

[paulm50]

Sleeping animals do not need as much space as does a zoo.

http://www.bartonwillmore.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Chester-Zoo-masterplan.jpg

Even hiberation doesn't explain how he managed to squeaaze 3,000,000 different species onto the Ark.

Try again.

 

[nonbeliever314]

Even hiberation doesn't explain how he managed to squeaaze 3,000,000 different species onto the Ark.

Try again.

Remember, the creator of the universe made the ark.

 

[paulm50]

The Jews who wrote the bible were a beaten tribe trying to stay together. They needed to talk up their own grup and faith, while surrounded by far stronger Empires.

So what has the Jewish god ever done for them? Apologies to Monty Python. The answer is very little. The Jews didn't reject Jesus, he's supposed to be the son of god. Jesus failed to convince them. All he did was convince others to start a new religion. Since then and up to 1960, they have been persecuted, murdered and slaughtered in millions.

So not much uses to them.

What has the Christian god done for us? Not a lot, the success of europeans is far more about Europe being where it is than some power from above. What have we used the power for? To persecute, murder, abuse and slaughter tens of millions. Often in the name of Christianity.

And the evidence of a god is? We occasionally do good things.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not a jot on some faith healers.
His failure was in converting his own people.

The ones who were killed for insisting on His resurrection?
Who would do that for you?

 

[Davian]

Noah had tranquillisers?

How it actually happened...

 

[SkyWriting]

Even hiberation doesn't explain how he managed to squeaaze 3,000,000 different species onto the Ark.

Try again.

The Bible makes no mention of species.
If you are making a scientific case, you
need to stick to the exact specifications
found in the source document to test
the case.

In this case, the source specifies about 2
of each kind. And this only included certain
classes of animals of a specific type.

Because these were hand-picked by God
Himself, they could be chosen by the ability
to quickly speciate quickly to the level of
diversity we see today.

 

[KCfromNC]

It would help if you would study up on the doctrine of the trinity first. Then maybe we'll continue this exchange.

WLC didn't have a handy quote to steal from to respond to my argument?

 

[KCfromNC]

The conclusion of the KCA version I advocate is not contested by any scientist (at least no one in this thread has been able to name any scientists that disagree with it) and yet supports a belief in God.

It also supports a belief in assorted non-divine sources for the universe. If the argument is consistent with both godly and mundane causes for the universe, it certainly can't be said to be in favor of one over the other and is thus off-topic for this thread.

 

[Joshua260]

Ok. Now explain in extreme detail how the Christian god and the other 5 "caused the existence of the universe.

I don't see how me not being able to explain in "extreme detail" how any one of those candidates caused the universe to exist proves anything. I can't explain how a lot of things work, but that doesn't prove that they don't.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't see how me not being able to explain in "extreme detail" how any one of those candidates caused the universe to exist proves anything. I can't explain how a lot of things work, but that doesn't prove that they don't.

How about Willy? Can Willy explain how God created the universe billions of years ago and the earth 13+ billion years ago?

 

[Joshua260]

WLC didn't have a handy quote to steal from to respond to my argument?

I don't need Craig to figure out that you do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity correctly. In any case, I chose not to continue that line of communication because it is off-topic. In this thread, my exchanges have centered around the KCA.

 

[Joshua260]

It also supports a belief in assorted non-divine sources for the universe. If the argument is consistent with both godly and mundane causes for the universe, it certainly can't be said to be in favor of one over the other and is thus off-topic for this thread.

This is just plainly incorrect. For example, the blood on the gloves in the OJ case supports a belief in a narrow range of possible suspects. Putting that evidence together with other evidence further narrows down the list of possible suspects to just one man.

In like manner, the KCA supports the belief in a narrow range of suggested beings with specific characteristics. Put that evidence together with other evidence narrows down the list to God.

 

[Joshua260]

I have already done that. None of them made the cut. If you can't get your personal version of the Christian god over the bar, I would not worry about the others.

It happens that my God does make the cut. The characteristics of the cause suggested by the KCA fits perfectly with the Christian god. To say that he doesn't is simply denial.

 

[Achilles6129]

So was Noah's Ark impossible? Or just highly improbable? Remember that an event that's extremely, extremely unlikely from a naturalistic point of view (say, 1 in a trillion chance) can be accomplished by the Creator of the universe. So I think you need to understand what the terms "impossible" and "highly improbable" actually mean. Obviously, if you're a naturalist, you're going to think that something very highly improbable (like walking on water) might actually be impossible. But that's only because you're a naturalist.

http://creation.com/how-did-all-the-animals-fit-on-noahs-ark

Edited to add: http://creation.com/noahs-ark-questions-and-answers

 

[bhsmte]

This is just plainly incorrect. For example, the blood on the gloves in the OJ case supports a belief in a narrow range of possible suspects. Putting that evidence together with other evidence further narrows down the list of possible suspects to just one man.

In like manner, the KCA supports the belief in a narrow range of suggested beings with specific characteristics. Put that evidence together with other evidence narrows down the list to God.

Show us specifically and in detail, this evidence that narrows the list down to God.