Benny Hinn on Dateline Last Night

mickd7 · Mar 17, 2005

Jim M said:
Sure, shut-ins and unchurched people have a right to hear the gospel and that is the wonder of TV. It could a more powerful instrument for good than it is now. But shut-ins do not have a right to be preyed upon or defrauded. That is why I wish Christian TV would clean up its act and become something more than a religious fundraising machine.

~Jim

WOW Jim you hit that one on the head.....
poor ole people and shutins are particularly suceptable to charlatans and money grabbers. Whatever happened to visitation from the churches. That seemed to fly away with the hymns we use to sing. Christians need to get off our buttocks and get back to visiting these folks and help them and guide them so they wont take the primrose lane some of these TV people throw out there. Fat Eagle

mickd7 · Mar 17, 2005

CelineDion said:
You know what mickd the thing is Ive been raised in the televangelist realm and i know what goes on. I know whose stealing your money and whose not. I know the "real" christians from the "snake oil salesman" as you so call them. I may be young but ive also had to grow up. I know you dont always do what feels good...it feels good to be with a guy but you dont do such a thing until your married etc. I had to grow up because my mother has always hated me...then she died. I had to grow up when dad remarried. I love my stepmother but its hard. God has called me to do so much and i just want to be a lawyer. Yes thats selfish , therefore im going to have to suck it up and do what God says. I love him more than anything...even my own dreams. Youre right , all of you. There are some really bad people in the televangelist world...I mean some nasty people. But there are some wonderful people who put God before everything. Just all i ask is if you think Bennys bad...pray for him. If you like him thank you.

Celion I hope you the best and that all your dreams come true and you attain your goals in life and if you trust the Lord you cant go wrong. As for Hinn I will pray for him and ask God to expose him if he is not Scriptural.
I do not know if Hinn is bad or good for only God knows the hearts of men and those that belong to him and ultimately God is his judge and mine. God Bless.. Fat Eagle.

JimB · Mar 17, 2005

Andyman_1970 said:
AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW come on Jim...........sow you seed of faith today

I agree, but, of course, a wise farmer will sow his seed in good soil if he expects a harvest.

~Jim

JimB · Mar 17, 2005

CelineDion said:
You know what mickd the thing is Ive been raised in the televangelist realm and i know what goes on. I know whose stealing your money and whose not. I know the "real" christians from the "snake oil salesman" as you so call them. I may be young but ive also had to grow up. I know you dont always do what feels good...it feels good to be with a guy but you dont do such a thing until your married etc. I had to grow up because my mother has always hated me...then she died. I had to grow up when dad remarried. I love my stepmother but its hard. God has called me to do so much and i just want to be a lawyer. Yes thats selfish , therefore im going to have to suck it up and do what God says. I love him more than anything...even my own dreams. Youre right , all of you. There are some really bad people in the televangelist world...I mean some nasty people. But there are some wonderful people who put God before everything. Just all i ask is if you think Bennys bad...pray for him. If you like him thank you.

What I do not understand, Celine, is why those in the televangelism ministry do not police it. Arent we instructed to mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them (Romans 16.17)?

Those who are not privy to what goes on in the world of televangelism are shooting in the dark and innocent people always get hurt when that happens. But those who know what is going on should put pressure on the frauds to fess up or get out.

The networks and those honest televangelists who unwisely ignore the problem, and do not mark the culprits, are only hurting their own credibility in the eyes of the church and the world.

The Apostle instructs, rather plainly I think, Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them, for it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. (Ephesians 5.11-12).

If this doesnt apply to religious fraud in the ministry of Jesus Christ then nothing does.

I urge you and all honest ministries who serve in the ministry of televangelism to do just that.

Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful (1 Cor. 4.2).

For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required (Luke 12.48).

These are not suggestions.

~Jim

sweetrevival · Mar 17, 2005

CelineDion said:
You know what mickd the thing is Ive been raised in the televangelist realm and i know what goes on. I know whose stealing your money and whose not. I know the "real" christians from the "snake oil salesman" as you so call them. I may be young but ive also had to grow up. I know you dont always do what feels good...it feels good to be with a guy but you dont do such a thing until your married etc. I had to grow up because my mother has always hated me...then she died. I had to grow up when dad remarried. I love my stepmother but its hard. God has called me to do so much and i just want to be a lawyer. Yes thats selfish , therefore im going to have to suck it up and do what God says. I love him more than anything...even my own dreams. Youre right , all of you. There are some really bad people in the televangelist world...I mean some nasty people. But there are some wonderful people who put God before everything. Just all i ask is if you think Bennys bad...pray for him. If you like him thank you.

God Bless you Celine. I believe you are as strong a Christian as many here. You are trying to present a point of view which will probably not be accepted because people, for the most part, do not want to have the things they believe challenged - especially by a young one. Yet Jim himself - who started all this - on another thread supports another minister because Jim knows him well. So there is essentially no difference between your opinion and Jim's in that they are both first hand. And I don't see the objections to his postings as I see to yours. Kind of sad, hey?

Let's all stand in agreement with Celine and pray for Benny....if you still want to object then where is your opinion coming from? Cause if it's not first hand, then go and check out satan talking to Eve in the garden and see what second hand information did there!

JimB · Mar 17, 2005

sweetrevival said:
***** Yet Jim himself - who started all this *****

You might want to check the author of the OP again?

~Jim

jiminpa · Mar 17, 2005

Jim M said:
You might want to check the author of the OP again?

~Jim

She didn't say you posted the topic. She said you started all of this. I am assuming she meant the hardline approach to the thread.

I'm just clarifying, not accusing.

JimB · Mar 18, 2005

jiminpa said:
She didn't say you posted the topic. She said you started all of this. I am assuming she meant the hardline approach to the thread.

I'm just clarifying, not accusing.

I started a thread a week before the Dateline expose announcing, without criticism, that BH would be on Dateline but I made no disparaging comments about him. I refuse to do that. In fact, I am happy to say, for the record, I have never (at least not in many months) directly spoken evil of any minister or televangelist. I have made it my personal policy to never condemn anyone by name.

But I have denounced (as should you) the corrupt system that supports and promotes religious fraud like the current sorry fare of so-called Christian networks with their current lax standards about on-air fundraising, etc. and people who blindly support the lifestyles-of-the-rich-and-famous-evangelist with their hard-earned money because they are taken in by the show they see on TV, confusing it with the Truth and calling what they are spoon-fed the anointing.

~Jim

jiminpa · Mar 18, 2005

I see, and it does seem as though you take a higher road than some. I have a problem with corruption, but I hesitate to make blanket assumptions against any type of ministry. I don't take the word of the Hollywood/New York slander machine, especially against Christians.

For example, the major Christian record labels are all owned by major secular mega-corporations, but I don't assume that the individual artists are corrupt. They need a platform for distribution and have to go through the available market. It's also common knowledge in the industry, that despite the perception of wealth most professional Christian musisians live off of the proceeds from the merchandise table, and don't make very much money.

My point is that perception is deceiving, and Hollywood/NYC loves to form perception. We as Christians have no business believing anything the media servants of the Accuser of the Brethern tell us, and it speaks volumes about our own walk with God if we help spread those lies, or worse yet for those in Christian media making millions helping to create those lies. And there are those in Christian media who are getting geniunely weathy, and somehow getting quite reputable by slandering Christians. It angers me greatly that this goes on, and Mr Hinn is one of the favorite targets of such "Christian" slanderers. If you can scripturally dispute his actual message that's one thing, but then go after the teaching and not the man, and go after what he actually teaches not what he can be made to look like he teaches.

Jim M, I am not accusing you of going after any individual, but there have been misquotes in this thread by people who probably don't even realize they were propagating slander. Somehow slandering Christians has become very lucrative in Christian media, and that should not be. That angers me more than anything Benny Hinn could possibly do.

JimB · Mar 18, 2005

jiminpa said:
I see, and it does seem as though you take a higher road than some. I have a problem with corruption, but I hesitate to make blanket assumptions against any type of ministry. I don't take the word of the Hollywood/New York slander machine, especially against Christians.

For example, the major Christian record labels are all owned by major secular mega-corporations, but I don't assume that the individual artists are corrupt. They need a platform for distribution and have to go through the available market. It's also common knowledge in the industry, that despite the perception of wealth most professional Christian musisians live off of the proceeds from the merchandise table, and don't make very much money.

My point is that perception is deceiving, and Hollywood/NYC loves to form perception. We as Christians have no business believing anything the media servants of the Accuser of the Brethern tell us, and it speaks volumes about our own walk with God if we help spread those lies, or worse yet for those in Christian media making millions helping to create those lies. And there are those in Christian media who are getting geniunely weathy, and somehow getting quite reputable by slandering Christians. It angers me greatly that this goes on, and Mr Hinn is one of the favorite targets of such "Christian" slanderers. If you can scripturally dispute his actual message that's one thing, but then go after the teaching and not the man, and go after what he actually teaches not what he can be made to look like he teaches.

Jim M, I am not accusing you of going after any individual, but there have been misquotes in this thread by people who probably don't even realize they were propagating slander. Somehow slandering Christians has become very lucrative in Christian media, and that should not be. That angers me more than anything Benny Hinn could possibly do.

I agree. However, before I write off the secular press altogether, I do believe that God often uses them to do what His church refuses to do. The OT is full of instances when God used pagan nations to chastise Israel because they would not heed His prophets or make the necessary corrections (repent). He still uses the uncircumcised to bring His judgment against the church. It was the Charlotte Observer - like them or not - that uncovered the corruption at PTL, not the church. The church was to busy defending PTL to see what was going on.

For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God. 1 Peter 4.17

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! I say this to shame you. 1 Corinthians 6.2-5

~Jim

jiminpa · Mar 18, 2005

It was the Charlotte Observer - like them or not - that uncovered the corruption at PTL, not the church.

Two points on that. The way they painted the picture the one who was probably least responsible got the worst penalty. Did they not have accountants? Why did the board of directors get off free? What about Tammy Faye? She wasn't even repentent. Jim Bakker looked the guiltiest, because he felt the guiltiest.

There were people in the church saying something.

Svt4Him · Mar 18, 2005

jiminpa said:
Two points on that. The way they painted the picture the one who was probably least responsible got the worst penalty. Did they not have accountants? Why did the board of directors get off free? What about Tammy Faye? She wasn't even repentent. Jim Bakker looked the guiltiest, because he felt the guiltiest.

There were people in the church saying something.

Well, the one who is most responsible is Jim Bakker. You can share the blame all you like, but when God sets a person in that position, they are the ones who need to be accountable. God says for this reason it will be good for people to stay out of teaching positions, as they will have greater accountability. Accountants audit the books, they don't do internal audits, but I have no idea if there are accountants who were working for PTL.

Trish1947 · Mar 18, 2005

I find the Book "Son of a Preacher Man", by Jay Bakker very interesting as far as seeing one Preacher chew on another.

After Jim Bakker had his trist with Jessica Hahn, Jim wanted to come before the public and confess, but Robert Dortch that was on the Board of Directors told Bakker it was the worst thing he could do, and the Board said no and paid her off.
Jimmy Swaggart wanted to take over Heritage USA, because if Bakker fell, it would revert back to the Assembly of God church, according to Jay Bakker. Jerry Falwell, said the best thing that Bakker could do is to turn it over to Him, for 2 months and leave while things cooled down. Jim agreed, But when Jim found out that it was a permenent take over, PTL was lost. He lied to Jim Bakker.

If this is the truth, what a feeding frenzy of Christian Ministers.

And if we can judge what has happened to these men, all of them. by pointing the finger, why would any minister want to get involved in pointing the finger.. unless it's to go council that minister face to face.. Which did not occur apparently by any minister that had a hand in it's takeover. Judge not least ye be judged. Period.

Asaph · Mar 18, 2005

This is all just so wrong. The whole forum has gone mad with Milk fed whiney people talking about things that have nothing to do with walking with God. Either worrying about the wealth of certain hard working high visibility preachers or worrying about what color socks a "real" christian would wear. And would they give up their favorite color if God asked them?

I targeted this thread to say such things because I know that most will actually read this thread.

That is the saddest testimony I can think of.

Asaph

CelineDion · Mar 21, 2005

Asaph said:
This is all just so wrong. The whole forum has gone mad with Milk fed whiney people talking about things that have nothing to do with walking with God. Either worrying about the wealth of certain hard working high visibility preachers or worrying about what color socks a "real" christian would wear. And would they give up their favorite color if God asked them?

I targeted this thread to say such things because I know that most will actually read this thread.

That is the saddest testimony I can think of.

Asaph

Exactly.

womanofgodwcci · Mar 21, 2005

Asaph said:
This is all just so wrong. The whole forum has gone mad with Milk fed whiney people talking about things that have nothing to do with walking with God. Either worrying about the wealth of certain hard working high visibility preachers or worrying about what color socks a "real" christian would wear. And would they give up their favorite color if God asked them?

I targeted this thread to say such things because I know that most will actually read this thread.

That is the saddest testimony I can think of.

Asaph

I second that!!!

mickd7 · Mar 21, 2005

Asaph said:
This is all just so wrong. The whole forum has gone mad with Milk fed whiney people talking about things that have nothing to do with walking with God. Either worrying about the wealth of certain hard working high visibility preachers or worrying about what color socks a "real" christian would wear. And would they give up their favorite color if God asked them?

I targeted this thread to say such things because I know that most will actually read this thread.

That is the saddest testimony I can think of.

Asaph

Mad for telling the truth!!!!! Give me a break. Everyone has an opinion on everything and some christians like myself a Pentacostal are not afraid to stand up against things in the body of Christ that do not seem right. Chief Fat Eagle

JimB · Mar 21, 2005

Asaph said:
This is all just so wrong. The whole forum has gone mad with Milk fed whiney people talking about things that have nothing to do with walking with God. Either worrying about the wealth of certain hard working high visibility preachers or worrying about what color socks a "real" christian would wear. And would they give up their favorite color if God asked them?

Asaph said:
I targeted this thread to say such things because I know that most will actually read this thread.

That is the saddest testimony I can think of.

Asaph

CelineDion said:
Exactly.

womanofgodwcci said:
I second that!!!

Well, I have to veto it because it sounds like the typical P/C ostrich approach to facing our problems. Problems do not go away because we stick our heads in the sand (or elsewhere) and refuse to acknowledge our shortcomings. When we don't police our ranks we can count on the media to do it.

Svt4Him said:
Well, the one who is most responsible is Jim Bakker. You can share the blame all you like, but when God sets a person in that position, they are the ones who need to be accountable. God says for this reason it will be good for people to stay out of teaching positions, as they will have greater accountability. Accountants audit the books, they don't do internal audits, but I have no idea if there are accountants who were working for PTL.

The Bakker-PTL scandal is ancient history now. But Richard Dortch, who was the Bakker-appointed senior vice president of PTL and pastor of the Heritage Village Church when the scandal broke, was also indicted and spent time in the federal slammer for his culpability in the scandal. Dortch pled guilty to reduced charges and agreed to testify against Jim Bakker.

The sad thing is, Dortch was a forward-thinking and highly respected District Superintendent (Illinois) and Executive Presbyter in the AG who many believed was next in line for General Superintendent after Thomas Zimmerman but who, instead, chose to affiliate with PTL instead of pursuing the superintendency of the denomination. It was all politics and opportunism, I guess, and most of us dont care a snit about that. Some people are certainly better cut out for church politics than others.

Personally, I believe Dortch became enmeshed in something that overwhelmed him after the Jessica Hahn scandal exploded and he has since led an exemplary life and continues in national ministry.

After his internment, Dortch did write a book about his involvement in PTL called, Integrity: How I Lost It and My Journey Back.

~Jim

CelineDion · Mar 21, 2005

Im not saying you shouldnt stop something if you know its wrong but if you dont know its wrong FOR SURE then leave the person alone...you could cause that person pain if they arent really doing anything. And i believe that if you are so desperate to know you need to call Benny Hinn ministries...www.bennyhinn.com go there , i believe there are some numbers go ahead. You can set up a meeting or something because thats the only way you will really know.

NewSong · Mar 21, 2005

Jim M said:
Well, I have to veto it because it sounds like the typical P/C ostrich approach to facing our problems. Problems do not go away because we stick our heads in the sand (or elsewhere) and refuse to acknowledge our shortcomings. When we don't police our ranks we can count on the media to do it.

<snip>

~Jim

Regarding the posts that seem contrary to the majority...I need to share this because I am part of this forum and I need to have posts like Jim's on the forum. I do not ever want to go through what I did a few years ago when I discovered that deceptions in high places....which is exactly what I think Jim addresses and he also addresses some other issues which I wished someone would have told me about years before they did.

Today I was speaking to a Vocational Educational Counselor who deals with many handicaps and many illnesses and she said that her job becomes so hard due to people like was addressed here on the thread. It is hard to get the folks to live life and to live according to what they have instead of what they don't have. She said, it breaks her heart everytime one of her clients invests in these high profiled ministries that make dateline and gain the exposure that they do, and it is also heartbreaking to realize there are still people under the bridge and in cardboard boxes sleeping when someone is wearing diamonds and driving ritzy cars.

Jim, don't ever stop posting the truth and exposing. Thank you personally for all you are doing. I have problems that I know came from disillusionment and I know that I gave these ministries money (not a lot because I never had a whole lot to give thank GOD) that created a lot of issues for me financially with what I did have but only to find out that they really are not always genuine. I quit naming names but I am with Jim all the way here.

God Bless Jim and please keep it up.

NewSong

Benny Hinn on Dateline Last Night

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