Belief in the Trinity required for salvation?
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Macca
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Jesus said " I am in the Father and the father in me" John 14: 10.Wavy said:
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus on the earth. So how can you separate them. Believe in one you must believe in all three.
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Its actually the case that if you believe that Jesus is God and the Holy spirit is God you also have to believe in the trinity that they are separate beings each with their own roles. God the father to whom all prsie and glory goes, Jesus is our redeemer and advocate and the Holy Spirit is God's helper that resides within us. To not believe in the trinity is to not believe in Jesus or the Holy Spirit. I hope this helps to answer the question
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fragmentsofdreams
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Agape_ said:
I don't think not being able to comprehend the relationship between the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit is a damnable sin.
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Willtor
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One uses the word, Trinity, very easily. But it's not a simple doctrine, and it doesn't have a simple history. If you talk to most people in the Church today (at least in my experience: low Church) most of them implicitly hold a Modalist view of God. It's not because they reject the Trinity, per se. It's that they never really learned it (or learned why it's important). I don't think it's a good thing that they haven't explored these things, and I think if they reasoned with it, they would quickly find themselves in heresy, but it is also the lack of reasoning that put them in Modalism in the first place.
As such, I think an acknowledgment of the Triune God is necessary, but acknowledgment of the fact that He is Triune is not.
As such, I think an acknowledgment of the Triune God is necessary, but acknowledgment of the fact that He is Triune is not.
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The question is not the comprehension of the relationship between father and son it is the belief in the trinity whether there are 3 aspects of one.
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Willtor
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Agape_ said:
They are not separate beings. This was actually a controversy, at one point. The Orthodoxy held that God was one in being, and the Arians held that He was not. That is why the Creed says, "one being with the Father" or "one essence with the Father." This "one being" is the word, "homoousis." It is used to describe the shared being or essence between the Father and the Son.
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I just think its really easy to get confused over this because how can we say they are the same but separete. I would use the analogy of Water where as if you have 3 drops of water seperate they are all the same substance but each one is distinct.
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fragmentsofdreams
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Agape_ said:
It is confusing, which is why I don't think it is necessary. Good theology aids salvation, but it does not save.
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Ok... I just need to ask if one does not believe in the trinity how can they be saved? I mean it would seem to say that Jesus was not in fact God because God is in heaven and the word was not made flesh separete and distinct.
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They can't .... You must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved whether you believe by Faith alone or by understanding of concept .... because the fact remains we can understand the concepts but will never truly be able to understand God in His Fullness until we are there... But the essential doctrine of the Trinity is an absolute.... therefore it must either be submitted to by Faith without understanding of concept or with understanding of concept....Agape_ said:
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CaliforniaCaliforniaJosiah said:
How then would you answer to God on Judgement Day for not believing in Him all along?
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debiwebi said:
Hi Debi, please call me Josiah
I THINK the question of the OP is if embracing the doctrine of the Trinity is essential to salvation; ie, can a person be saved without affirming that particular doctrine. My opinion is yes they can.
IMO, we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. I think it possible that a person could have faith in Christ yet have a modalistic or other understanding of this issue of the Godhead - or perhaps no understanding of it at all (I wonder if the thief on the Cross got a lesson on the Athanasian Creed?).
Just MY $0.01...
Pax.
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To which I stated in my answer this alreadyCaliforniaJosiah said:Hi Debi, please call me Josiah
I THINK the question of the OP is if embracing the doctrine of the Trinity is essential to salvation; ie, can a person be saved without affirming that particular doctrine. My opinion is yes they can.
IMO, we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. I think it possible that a person could have faith in Christ yet have a modalistic or other understanding of this issue of the Godhead - or perhaps no understanding of it at all (I wonder if the thief on the Cross got a lesson on the Athanasian Creed?).
Just MY $0.01...
Pax.
- Josiah
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But the essential doctrine of the Trinity is an absolute.... therefore it must either be submitted to by Faith without understanding of concept or with understanding of concept....
Did the thief on the Cross understand this Concept of course not, or actually how did we know? Because in the Biblical account it does not tell us of his understanding of Christ, what it does tell us though is that He recognized Him as Lord and God...
He in fact berated the other robber on the cross for questioning Christ...
We can only come to the understanding that we are capable of... this is true and some are not capable of the understanding of the concepts .... Most of us though are, and therefore, when we reject the concept knowing what it is, do you not think that God in turn will judge us according to the knowledge we could have and should have accepted and rejected? I am not talking about those in capable, because I do believe God merciful and Kind, but I also believe God is Just as well...
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tulc
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I'm going with "no" here and let me tell you why: when we get saved we (well most of us anyway) know nothing about God, we just know in our hearts something is missing, and God is what fills it. Learning the nature of God doesn't get us saved, learning the history or doctrines of the Church doesn't get us saved. Asking Jesus into our hearts? That's where it starts. All the rest of it comes AFTER we are already saved. So I'm going "No, we don't have to believe in the trinity to get saved."
tulc(IMHO)
tulc(IMHO)
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GraceLikeRainFallsDown
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I am voting "no" as well. The Bible is clear the way to the Father is through Jesus. If one accepts Jesus as their personal Savior, that is what is required for salvation.
Now, I think that if one has true faith in Jesus, they will also have faith in the Trinity. But, I was thinking of people in other parts of the world (like Africa) who do not have the books and churches we have here. They may get a Bible from someone and never hear the term Trinity. They would understand that God the Father sent His Son and then after the Son left His Spirit was sent. But,while they accept Christ as the Son of God who is their Savior and Lord they may not totally grasp the Trinity. So, I do not think there lack of understanding would harm them.
Now, I think that if one has true faith in Jesus, they will also have faith in the Trinity. But, I was thinking of people in other parts of the world (like Africa) who do not have the books and churches we have here. They may get a Bible from someone and never hear the term Trinity. They would understand that God the Father sent His Son and then after the Son left His Spirit was sent. But,while they accept Christ as the Son of God who is their Savior and Lord they may not totally grasp the Trinity. So, I do not think there lack of understanding would harm them.
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