Being true to myself

[CurlyCrown]

I apologise first if I seem like I'm kind of just jumping into things here, but this is really why I came, and I'm sure I can get some great advice.

I've been a Pagan for a number of years and to be honest I really just don't feel that connection to any sort of God. Fpr a while I did seek to become Christian, but my only guides were those of the very fundamental end of Christianity. Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but well, let me try and explain this a different way because I'm getting all discombobulated.

I really do feel a strong connection to the idea of Jesus and the God of Christianity. I have no of yet had any sort of defining spiritual experience, but it's what I feel. The only problem is I also have a strong connection to many parts of my Pagan faith - reverence of nature, the idea of energy, and those things. The only Christians I know are of the fundamentalist, charismatic evangellical type, and their strict treatment of Christianity, and especially the idea of mututal exclusitivity and the literalist view of the Bible is the only Christianity I know, and I can't (not for lack of trying...) agree with those. It's kind of hard to even try to find God in Christianity with that as my only support. Now, like I said, there's nothing wrong with fundamentalism or conservative Christianity.....it's just really not for me, and my friends just don't get that.

 

[ukok]

I would say that for all of humanity there is a searching, a longing for fulfillment..an ever questionning that can not be fulfilled by anything but God...many of us find that when we accept the existance of God...because that is singularly the most profound and fundamental aspect of our whole life...the searching/longing for fulfillment comes to it's demise...we make a choice to make a willful rejection, or an acceptance that leads us to further exploration.

Those of us who are Christians didn't all start out feeling that we had a 'connection with God'..it is a work in progress, we have to work at any relationship, but how much more so our Christianity....it's a high price to pay,(often we have an attachment to thing's that lead us away from God, whether that be in having an addiction to class A drug's, alcoholism, paganism or whatever else) but the rewards of striving to be what we are commanded to be if we accept the title 'Christian'...are heavenly, provided that we run the race, and we run it well.


It seem's to me that you already have an awareness that God is a 'viable entity'..but that you don't like what you see as organised and restrictive religion...i know that this whole thing is hugely complicated, but you must be aware that there are 30,000 plus denominations in the world that claim that they are Christian...perhaps you shouldn't be so concerned with what you feel you will have to believe (because they all believe different thing's anyway so you could never conform to one without denying another church)....as to just striking up this relationship with God...start small

God Bless.

 

[awen]

First of all, let me just say that I really respect your use of the word 'discombobulated'. It's so rarely used these days!


I'd just like to focus on one part of your message. You said that "for a while I did seek to become Christian, but my only guides were those of the very fundamental end of Christianity"...


First, let me just say that I really respect the fact that you've actually taken the time to come into a place like this and write to people about how you feel. That shows that you're genuine, and genuinely searching for truth, which is very commendable, especially in this day and age, when people prefer lies.


My problem with your statement up here is fairly simple. I feel, and I believe that the Bible teaches, that Christ and His Word should be our guides. That's applicable for both believers and seekers. Psalm 119:105 says "your Word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path". John 15:26 says that "the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my Name, will teach you all things".

Don't get me wrong - guidance is essential, and fellow believers are very important in our walk with Christ. However, particularly as a new believer, or a seeker, what is of first and foremost importance is that you read God's Word for yourself, and ask that God show you His Truth. I look at it this way...


If you sit down with the Bible in your hands and a request for Truth on your lips, you can't lose. If you read, and find Truth, so be it. In fact, that's wonderful. If you read, and find nothing, then at least you'll have eliminated one possibility and be reconciled and justified in walking away from Christianity. No harm done.


The reason, I believe, that you have a strong connection to many pagan elements, is because Paganism has within it an element that I believe Christian teaching often lacks. If you look at Genesis 2:15, you'll see that God created man with a very important purpose. The first, and most important, is mentioned earlier in Genesis (and all through Scripture), and that is to have a relationship with God Himself. The second, and one of the most neglected Christian teachings, is, I believe, that God created man to tend the earth. Adam was a gardener; Eden was his garden, and God built into Adam a desire and a need to cultivate. I believe that Paganism highlights what Christianity often neglects: the fact that man was created to have a harmonious, mutually beneficial relationship with the land. The second thing I believe Paganism highlights that Christianity often doesn't fully explore, is the fact that God created all things. This world is a reflection of its Maker; it bears His fingerprints, and is the work of His hands.

[edited] - Let me just stress here that I believe it is Christian teaching (by humans) rather than God's Word, that lacks focus on God's Creation and our environment!

Mutual exclusivity is a slightly different issue.
The question here is whether or not Jesus Christ is who He claims He is. I won't go into this in depth now, because I've already typed a lot, however, if you want to know more, you can always email me (check my profile, it should be there, I presume!). If Christ is who He claims to be, then mutual exclusivity is both rational and necessary, primarily because of His character. If Christ is God, then the only way to know God is through Him, right?

The difficulty is, Christ claims that He is the only way that God has provided for mankind to come to salvation (much as the Ark was the only way God provided to escape the worldwide flood). If we then ignore Christ and follow Mohammed, what hope can their be for us? If, on the other hand, Christ is wrong, and He isn't the only way to God, then that's another matter entirely.

This is why I say you should read for yourself, and find out these answers. I can point you in the right direction if you wish. Again, email me if you like. I'd be happy to hear from you.


I'd better end all this now. It's getting long and I don't want to exhaust everyone who reads this page. Please do think over these things, and feel free to write to me if you have any questions. It's easier than posting in forums!

Ben.

 

[Maplehugger]

Curlycrown,

I appreciate the post you wrote as it had so much honesty in it. I don't have anything to offer you other than I will be praying for you this weekend. I will pray that doors will open for you to see and know who Jesus is and what He desires for your life. May God bless you as you search... and just one little note... LOL... Jesus is a naturalist too! ;-) Be Blessed!

 

[Monica02]

Could you elaborate on your Pagan beliefs? What exactly is this "energy"? I only ask because it might help Christians to understand where you are coming from and this might help them to answer your questions. I respect nature and I understand that God created it, but I do not worship nature. I worship God.

What do you mean by mutual exclusitivity? What conservitive teachings do you have difficulty with?

 

[CurlyCrown]

Could you elaborate on your Pagan beliefs? What exactly is this "energy"? I only ask because it might help Christians to understand where you are coming from and this might help them to answer your questions. I respect nature and I understand that God created it, but I do not worship nature. I worship God.

The best way I can think of to describe it is to compare it to the human "soul" - each person has that kind of non-physical spirit which is what would carry on after our bodies are dead. The earth, I feel, is a living entity in itself (think The Gaia Theory), and each living part of the earth, and the earth itself has that same kind of spirit, so much of it that it emenates from the earth itself. That is the energy. It's not something to be worshipped, nor is the earth, but it's more of a reverence of nature. It has a sacredness in itself that is not above God, but nearer than we are.

What do you mean by mutual exclusitivity? What conservitive teachings do you have difficulty with?

Really, what I have a hard time with is the idea of actively converting people, and believing that "my way is the only way". I just don't feel comfortable invalidating someone elses beliefs, whether or not I may believe that I've found the one true way. And actually, the "one true way" stuff doesn't sit too right with me either. Let me elaborate on that, because as I'm typing I'm changing my mind rapidly, heh. It isn't that I can't *believe* that my beliefs are the right one, because I suppose everyone really has to in order to really have faith.....but it's the idea of telling other people that I'm right and thier not that bothers me.

I want to thank everyone who's replied so far, your advice is definately giving me something to think on. ^^

 

[Blessed2003]

I apologise first if I seem like I'm kind of just jumping into things here, but this is really why I came, and I'm sure I can get some great advice.

I've been a Pagan for a number of years and to be honest I really just don't feel that connection to any sort of God. Fpr a while I did seek to become Christian, but my only guides were those of the very fundamental end of Christianity. Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but well, let me try and explain this a different way because I'm getting all discombobulated.

I really do feel a strong connection to the idea of Jesus and the God of Christianity. I have no of yet had any sort of defining spiritual experience, but it's what I feel. The only problem is I also have a strong connection to many parts of my Pagan faith - reverence of nature, the idea of energy, and those things. The only Christians I know are of the fundamentalist, charismatic evangellical type, and their strict treatment of Christianity, and especially the idea of mututal exclusitivity and the literalist view of the Bible is the only Christianity I know, and I can't (not for lack of trying...) agree with those. It's kind of hard to even try to find God in Christianity with that as my only support. Now, like I said, there's nothing wrong with fundamentalism or conservative Christianity.....it's just really not for me, and my friends just don't get that.

Curly Crown, don't cry... , it makes me sad. I just want to say that I know how you feel, ok. I am not, nor have I ever been a Pagan, but I understand how difficult it is to not fit into any one catagory with your beliefs. I will say, I do not know much about Paganism, I do have a friendship with a lady online who is Pagan, she is very sweet, and she is my friend, despite the fact that our 'system' of beliefs if different. I believe she belives in reincarnation, and I understand a little about the reverance of nature. I know, I will get so kicked for saying this, but I don't care, what I care about is YOU, and that you don't have to believe what anyone else believes, only listen to the calling you are getting from the very One who created the nature that you revere. You dont' have to accept EVERYthing all at once for crying out loud. My first little piece of advice would be first, pray to the Creator (call Him what you feel is suitable, I might be wrong, but I think He knows you are talking to Him.) (if you are uncomfortable with the words we currently use to describe Him.) Hey, for that matter, ask Him what to call Him, Whatever, just pray, talk to Him as you would to another human who is sitting there, explain all to Him, I promise, as sure as I was touched, He will be. He may not give you answers the way you want, it may be a slow go, (usuallyis) but they will come exactly when and how they need to. Know please that NOT ALL who follow Christ are the same, weigh them by the love they have, that is how to tell, a true follower loves, regardless. Also, we make the mistake all too often of 'condemning' you before we ever even hear you out, I apologize for that, we truly WANT to do what's right, but as you know, no one is perfect. I just want you to know, I love you, I mean that, your well being matters to God though, even if not to one single other human. I will answer any questions you may have, as I have been seeking the answers to this puzzle all of my life. I will try to help. Though, I may not.
Blessings to you always, and I pray that you find what your looking for.
B

 

[Monica02]

The best way I can think of to describe it is to compare it to the human "soul" - each person has that kind of non-physical spirit which is what would carry on after our bodies are dead. The earth, I feel, is a living entity in itself (think The Gaia Theory), and each living part of the earth, and the earth itself has that same kind of spirit, so much of it that it emenates from the earth itself. That is the energy. It's not something to be worshipped, nor is the earth, but it's more of a reverence of nature. It has a sacredness in itself that is not above God, but nearer than we are.

Really, what I have a hard time with is the idea of actively converting people, and believing that "my way is the only way". I just don't feel comfortable invalidating someone elses beliefs, whether or not I may believe that I've found the one true way. And actually, the "one true way" stuff doesn't sit too right with me either. Let me elaborate on that, because as I'm typing I'm changing my mind rapidly, heh. It isn't that I can't *believe* that my beliefs are the right one, because I suppose everyone really has to in order to really have faith.....but it's the idea of telling other people that I'm right and thier not that bothers me.

I want to thank everyone who's replied so far, your advice is definately giving me something to think on. ^^

This energy eminating from the living Earth (I am not familiar with the Gaia Theory), does the earth itself create it or do Pagans believe that a god or gods created this energy? Would a Pagan worship this god(s)? My understanding from your post is that you believe that people and the Earth both have souls.

Regarding your second paragraph. I can't understand how a person can sincerely believe that what they know to be truth is only truth for them. If truth is what it claims to be then it must be the same for all. Truth is not relative. You should know that the Catholic Church teaches that she is the Church Christ established and that she alone holds the comlete Deposit of Faith. A person may come to know God through different paths and the possibility exists for all to get to heaven.

 

[CurlyCrown]

This energy eminating from the living Earth (I am not familiar with the Gaia Theory), does the earth itself create it or do Pagans believe that a god or gods created this energy? Would a Pagan worship this god(s)? My understanding from your post is that you believe that people and the Earth both have souls.

Oh, the Gaia Theory is a scientific theory that the earth itself is a living organism. Well, that's the very basic of it anyway.
Personally, I believe that the giving off of this energy is something that the earth does voulentarily or not. I've never really been a polytheistic person, my personal belief is that God created the earth and meant for it to be this way, but focus should always be on God.

Regarding your second paragraph. I can't understand how a person can sincerely believe that what they know to be truth is only truth for them. If truth is what it claims to be then it must be the same for all. Truth is not relative. You should know that the Catholic Church teaches that she is the Church Christ established and that she alone holds the comlete Deposit of Faith. A person may come to know God through different paths and the possibility exists for all to get to heaven.

It'skind of diffuclt to explain....I may believe that my beliefs are the correct ones, and someone else may say the same thing about thiers, but since belief is not really something that can be proven, but really must be experienced, I don't feel it's my place to tell someone else that what they believe is wrong, even if I think so. Does that make more sense?

 

[Celticflower]

.


It'skind of diffuclt to explain....I may believe that my beliefs are the correct ones, and someone else may say the same thing about thiers, but since belief is not really something that can be proven, but really must be experienced, I don't feel it's my place to tell someone else that what they believe is wrong, even if I think so. Does that make more sense?

And this is where we get denominational differences. We all have the same core beliefs, but differ on the incidentals. Some of us can get over it and agree to disagree and some of us can't see past the end of our own pew. Since most of your experience has been with the conservative branches of Christianity why not look into some of the more liberal or middle of the road denominations? And as a previous poster said-open a Bible and look for the truth for yourself.
I wish you luck on your journey pilgrim and pray we will meet at the end of the road.

Celtie

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

I apologise first if I seem like I'm kind of just jumping into things here, but this is really why I came, and I'm sure I can get some great advice.

I've been a Pagan for a number of years and to be honest I really just don't feel that connection to any sort of God. Fpr a while I did seek to become Christian, but my only guides were those of the very fundamental end of Christianity. Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but well, let me try and explain this a different way because I'm getting all discombobulated.

I really do feel a strong connection to the idea of Jesus and the God of Christianity. I have no of yet had any sort of defining spiritual experience, but it's what I feel. The only problem is I also have a strong connection to many parts of my Pagan faith - reverence of nature, the idea of energy, and those things. The only Christians I know are of the fundamentalist, charismatic evangellical type, and their strict treatment of Christianity, and especially the idea of mututal exclusitivity and the literalist view of the Bible is the only Christianity I know, and I can't (not for lack of trying...) agree with those. It's kind of hard to even try to find God in Christianity with that as my only support. Now, like I said, there's nothing wrong with fundamentalism or conservative Christianity.....it's just really not for me, and my friends just don't get that.

Dear friend, thank you for your post and for the opportunity to discuss your beliefs with you.

As you begin your quest to find the Living Lord, it is first necessary to knwo exactly what Christianity is. You're right-people can't be the basis for your faith, although they can be very helpful. But we know God and what He requires through His written word, which is the Bible. This, as His word, we cannot change or make it into what we want it to be even though the temptation is almost universal. We learn here who Jesus is and how we serve Him, and what He requires. Therefore, when we come to Jesus Christ, we receive Him as both Savior and Lord. This means He will be faithful to deliver our souls if we truly belong to Him (that's the savior part), but He also is our Lord, which means He rules us and so we must submit our lives to Him in order to truly be His. The Savior and Lord roles come as a package; we don't get one without the other.

The basis of Jesus's Lordship is the fact that He is God created us for His own purposes:

John 1:1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created. 4 In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.

But inside we have an inherent tendency to want to rule ourselves. Become gods to ourselves. This is referred to as original sin, and it is the basis for all the other sins we've committed. We all have this old nature in us. But when Jesus comes and becomes our Lord, He sets us free from the punishment from sin, but also from the need to commit sin. If you give Him your life, ask Him to take away the desire to cling to paganism. Ask Him to show you what you're looking for that so many people have looked to paganism to fill, and ask God to fill it instead. He promises He will. We all have that void that only the Lord can fill. That is the first step. God will work with you on the rest, and He is faithful. But you have to be willing to give up everything and submit to His Godhood. The Bible is His word. We can't change it or eliminate spots of it; we have to receive it as a whole, and that's where a lot of people struggle-a lot. It's so tempting to want to hang onto control which we never really have in the first place.

The good news is, the Lord's word is for everyone, including you! Once you just rest in the Lord and let God be God in your life, the things that hold you back will slip away, and you will find yourself in a much happier spot. You'll find that the things we all have a desire to control can't satisfy anyway, and you'll find the real peace.

Love in Christ,
Whitehorse

 

[awen]

CurlyCrown,

Quite possibly you can now see why it is that I encourage you to go straight to God's Word to find Truth. Even between those who agree in here (and there are many of us!), perspectives and outlooks will always be different, as will advice - because we have all travelled different paths to come to Christ, and we all have different experiences with Him. The only thing that does not change in this life is Christ, and the only way to find Him is through His own Word. Get hold of a copy of the Bible, and read. Find the answers to your questions.

The fact that you're in here, despite your love for paganist beliefs, indicates the fact that you're aware something is missing. Search for that something in Christ, by opening His Word, and looking for the Truth. As I said earlier, if you feel you don't find it, you've lost nothing. If you gain that truth, however, you can the whole world... and eternity with it.

Start with the book of John. It's a simple, straightforward look at who Christ is and what He did on earth, and will show you why we Christians believe that Jesus is someone worth your attention. Following that, read Romans, which will tell you all about the human condition and why Christ needed to come, and needed to do what He did on this earth. Romans is heavy going, and will load you with questions - and that's where your Christian friends should come in! And if they have trouble answering your questions... hopefully you'll consider us friendly enough to come back here!

Ben.

 

[Monica02]

Oh, the Gaia Theory is a scientific theory that the earth itself is a living organism. Well, that's the very basic of it anyway.
Personally, I believe that the giving off of this energy is something that the earth does voulentarily or not. I've never really been a polytheistic person, my personal belief is that God created the earth and meant for it to be this way, but focus should always be on God.


It'skind of diffuclt to explain....I may believe that my beliefs are the correct ones, and someone else may say the same thing about thiers, but since belief is not really something that can be proven, but really must be experienced, I don't feel it's my place to tell someone else that what they believe is wrong, even if I think so. Does that make more sense?

Christians believe that God created the Earth. All matter has energy (or can convert to it) according to science. If I can remember my physics correctly, all energy equations contain a mass variable. It has been awhile since college. Do you believe that the Earth's energy is somehow its soul? I have never understood the Earth to be a living organism, scientifically or spiritually. Do you believe that God loves his Earth as much as his people and that both are equal in his sight?

If you truly, truly believed your faith tradition and/or concept of God was correct and true, would you not feel compelled to share that with people and attempt to convert them? It is true that an article of faith can't be proven, however, my sincere belief would compel me to hold to it and teach it. I understand that other people are just as sincere in their beliefs and I can understand how they would feel it necessary to spread these beliefs. I cannot see how someone could be sincere and NOT feel compelled to evangilize or teach their faith.

 

[CurlyCrown]

Christians believe that God created the Earth. All matter has energy (or can convert to it) according to science. If I can remember my physics correctly, all energy equations contain a mass variable. It has been awhile since college. Do you believe that the Earth's energy is somehow its soul? I have never understood the Earth to be a living organism, scientifically or spiritually. Do you believe that God loves his Earth as much as his people and that both are equal in his sight?

Well, not really. It's more the idea that the earth is sacred, I wouldn't say it's above, below or equal to God or humans.....it just...is. It's hard to explain --;

If you truly, truly believed your faith tradition and/or concept of God was correct and true, would you not feel compelled to share that with people and attempt to convert them? It is true that an article of faith can't be proven, however, my sincere belief would compel me to hold to it and teach it. I understand that other people are just as sincere in their beliefs and I can understand how they would feel it necessary to spread these beliefs. I cannot see how someone could be sincere and NOT feel compelled to evangilize or teach their faith.

Well, even though I may believe that I've found the right way, I really do believe that spiritual endeavors are highly personal, and it isn't my right to try and convert people. Sharing my personal happiness, yes, and if that's enough to convince someone to even look into what I believe to be right, then so be it, but going out of my way to make someone think the way I do I can't agree with. I've had and heard about too many terrible conversion stories.

 

[Monica02]

Well, not really. It's more the idea that the earth is sacred, I wouldn't say it's above, below or equal to God or humans.....it just...is. It's hard to explain --;



Well, even though I may believe that I've found the right way, I really do believe that spiritual endeavors are highly personal, and it isn't my right to try and convert people. Sharing my personal happiness, yes, and if that's enough to convince someone to even look into what I believe to be right, then so be it, but going out of my way to make someone think the way I do I can't agree with. I've had and heard about too many terrible conversion stories.

Hello,

Do you consider the Earth to be sacred like we Christians consider a church building to be sacred or a pilgrimage site? A place to be revered?
Is your faith what you think or what you know?

 

[CurlyCrown]

Hello,

Do you consider the Earth to be sacred like we Christians consider a church building to be sacred or a pilgrimage site? A place to be revered?
Is your faith what you think or what you know?

Kind of, yes, and I can't say for sure. Until I've experienced more, it's what I think. But since faith is not something you can prove or disprove, it'll always be what I think to everyone else. *shrug*