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Being Perfect

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Johan Abrahams, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    With man it is impossible...with God All things are possible
     
  2. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    And God can only give what a person can see...
     
  3. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    Two sides of the same coin ...
     
  4. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And the relevence of these verses is?
     
  5. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good you accept that we are sinners and that we are saved through the saving work of Jesus.

    As I said, we have to strive against temptation etc and to frequently come back to Jesus, because we have yet again failed him.
    as 1John1v9 says he will forgive us and purify us yet again.
     
  6. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    Many people believe entering heaven is not possible until physical death as in 'after life'.
     
  7. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you for clarifing what you were trying to say.

    For the majority of people that is correct, but what about those alive when Jesus comes again?

    The bible talks about them being changed.
     
  8. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
     
  9. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Not only do we not get 10 out of 10, we score a pretty consistent 0 out of 10. Jesus was able to sum up the entirety of God's Law as "Love the Lord your God ... and love your neighbor as yourself." Couldn't get much simpler right? And yet we fail on that point all the time too.

    It's not even that we aren't perfect, it's that for all our struggling and striving we don't even get any of it right as we ought to.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  10. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Matthew 5:48 (NASB)
    48 Therefore you are to be "perfect", as your heavenly Father is "perfect".

    perfect...Greek 5046...teleios...
    1.brought to its end, finished (SANCTIFICATION PROCESS!)
    2.wanting nothing necessary to completeness
    1.consummate HUMAN integrity and virtue
    2.of men 1.full grown, adult, of full age, MATURE!

    The TRI-UNE GOD "wants" ALL to be spiritually changed, saved per John 3 explained in Ephesians 2.

    ALL of Mankind's spirits are DRAWN / CALLED by God's spirit to ACCEPT (or REJECT) God the Son
    and His completed works on the Cross FOR you, (substitutionary atonement)


    John 6:44
    No one can come to Me
    unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him;
    and I will raise him up on the last day.

    God is in Sovreign control. He is "all everything"! He FORE-KNOWS ALL!
    If anyone truly and spiritually seeks God, God will save Him from eternal spiritual death and judgment of separation.


    1 Timothy 2:1-6 (NASB)....A Call to Prayer
    First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of ALL men,for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    who gave Himself as a ransom for ALL, the testimony given at the proper time.

    2 Peter 3: 7-9 (NASB)
    But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for "the day of judgment" and destruction of ungodly men.
    But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, (believers)that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
    The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward YOU,
    not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (turn to God)

    1 Chronicles 28:9
    “As for you, my son Solomon,
    know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
    for the Lord searches ALL hearts, and understands EVERY intent of the thoughts.
    If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
    BUT if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

    Romans 4:2-3...Salvation: Not by "works"...IMPUTED /CREDITED righteousness
    For if Abraham was justified by works,
    he has something to boast about,
    but not before God.
    For what does the Scripture say?
    “Abraham believed God, and
    it was credited to him as righteousness.”

    After the SALVATION EVENT, believers are permanently indwelt by God the Holy Spirit
    Who comforts and guides them toward the perfect "will of God".
    The SANCTIFICATION PROCESS begins! A battle rages, ending only in the death of the Body/Soul combo. The BATTLE: "old man" (world chaos + sin nature + devil)==>VERSUS<== "NEW creature in Christ + God the Holy Spirt.

    God's spirit MATURES the believer TOWARD "perfection"...MORE like Jesus'example and precepts...LESS like the "old man".
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  11. Johan Abrahams

    Johan Abrahams Member

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    Amen brother . . .and there comes a time to lie down ours too . . .to be able to pick it up again.

    Love Johan
     
  12. Johan Abrahams

    Johan Abrahams Member

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    Amen sister!
    The gospel is not keeping us in the dust. It is also picking us up . . .out of the dust. And then we start walking "upright". And growing "upright" there comes a time when we Live in Ruling Authority . . .There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


    Love Johan
     
  13. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    A picture of the process John spoke of as a He increases, therefore I must decress.

    ... when they cast their leaves: (And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.) so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

    The meaning of grace changes to us, from something measured, to something immeasurable, when we find it again in the soul picked up.
     
  14. Johan Abrahams

    Johan Abrahams Member

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    Yep . . .brother . . .this was my experience also under the law.

    Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

    I was always down . . .sinning . . . in the dust.

    Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
    Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    I really saw my "wretchedness" . . .and I was crying out also:

    Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    And today . . . I can sing the rest. Salvation of this situation also came to me:

    Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    And I started walking in "another Law"

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    When we walk in this law the other one does not exist anymore.

    Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    Love Johan
     
  15. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    QUESTION: What relevance do POSTS #31 + 32 + 34 have with the OP: Q1: "BEING PERFECT" ??
     
  16. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    He can only give us what we can see. It is all about perception from where we are in the process taking place within.

    God asked Adam "Where art thou? Who told thou...?", and Hast thou eaten...?"...when he first perceived his nakedness. God wants to blind us so we can have singleness of eye, again. Reconciled ... the son that we are that we don't know we are.
     
  17. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    RESPONSE to POST#36.

    So if Man "PERCEIVES" that he is "perfect", he is??

    "God wants to blind us so we can have singleness of eye, again."

    Wrong. God gave Mankind and angels the spiritual gift of "free will" to ACCEPT or REJECT His spiritual CALLING/DRAWING.
     
  18. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    What's in it (a word) depends on who is viewing it, and where they are viewing it from (which is how it is laid out in the whole of scripture).

    How can we separate God walking in us, from being perfect as your father in heaven is perfect, or from life eternal, or from grace, which like love is God (who through Christ has been made all things to us; a reconcilation to the one truth that he is to us as one who is all in all).

    Grace ... like all things is something sent out that brings a desolation in order to in it produce a hundredfold.

    What manner of salvation is this that we should be called the sons of God ...
     
  19. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    Free will is the same as being perfect in relationship to our soul, it is something we must lose to find.
     
  20. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians 12:9 ..."My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness...I will boast of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

    Perception...we can only see from where we are at in the process of soul taking place within. The man from the dust realm is weak and self-seeking. The duality within ends when the two become One... In Christ. But we must first believe it possible. The power of the gospel...to KNOW the same spirit that rose Jesus' body from the grave lives within to cause us to overcome.

    1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him




    To know the son that you are that you don't know that you are. Only the Father can reveal it...
     
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