Being Perfect

Johan Abrahams

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Grace is not much seen on earth.

But we know that it exists.

God is graceful.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


By His grace He justified us. We didn’t earn it. Because we could not get 10 out of 10.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


And now we are called to Live in the Life of Jesus.

He is God to us. He is gracefull and so do we need to allow His grace to be our new Life that is flowing out of us.

We therefor do not impute sin anymore. And the Grace of God manifests from out of us.

As Jesus is our new Life. We died. And we are now living the Life of God to the people.

And God’s name is restored.

Eze 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.


This is our calling . . .the restoration of God’s name.


When we are sanctified before their eyes.


And they will go on sinning . . .


Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Only to give us the change to be “perfect” and to allow Him to sanctify His great name . . .by Jesus who is now our grace.


And thus . . .by the Life of Jesus . . .God’s Word to us . . to create that very Life in us . . .we will be “perfect”


Love Johan
 

SkyWriting

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Grace is not much seen on earth.

But we know that it exists.

God is graceful.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


By His grace He justified us. We didn’t earn it. Because we could not get 10 out of 10.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


And now we are called to Live in the Life of Jesus.

He is God to us. He is gracefull and so do we need to allow His grace to be our new Life that is flowing out of us.

We therefor do not impute sin anymore. And the Grace of God manifests from out of us.

As Jesus is our new Life. We died. And we are now living the Life of God to the people.

And God’s name is restored.

Eze 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.


This is our calling . . .the restoration of God’s name.


When we are sanctified before their eyes.


And they will go on sinning . . .


Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Only to give us the change to be “perfect” and to allow Him to sanctify His great name . . .by Jesus who is now our grace.


And thus . . .by the Life of Jesus . . .God’s Word to us . . to create that very Life in us . . .we will be “perfect”


Love Johan


We can only be "perfect" in the sense that God will forgive us our transgressions
if we Trust in His Son Jesus. In the presence of God, anything less than perfect
is disintegrated like Dry Ice on a warm day.
But Jesus forgives us our sins and pays the price for them.
We are only "perfect" becuase Jesus forgives all our crimes.
 
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Tolworth John

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And thus . . .by the Life of Jesus . . .God’s Word to us . . to create that very Life in us . . .we will be “perfect”
We will be perfect yes, but only when we arrive in heaven.
Untill then we have to struggle and strive against temptation to sin.
 
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Phantasman

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Gods grace is "patience and understanding of our physical (soul) weakness'. The spirit is strong, the body weak. The weak body will always have it's own desires separate from Gods will. And that battle will continue until physical death. The spirit given each of us is to save the soul, not the body.

Know yourself.
 
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Johan Abrahams

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We can only be "perfect" in the sense that God will forgive us our transgressions
if we Trust in His Son Jesus. In the presence of God, anything less than perfect
is disintegrated like Dry Ice on a warm day.
But Jesus forgives us our sins and pays the price for them.
We are only "perfect" becuase Jesus forgives all our crimes.
Hi brother.

What you are speaking about is from God's side. Yep we are washed clean. We are given the righteousness of God in Jesus. And now we should learn to give also righteousness to our neighbors. We need to love the same way as we are loved. Then we learn to be full of Grace. Jesus Himself said that we are then perfect as His Father is perfect. Grace is a virtue of God. But it is not an impossible act that Jesus is asking. That would be unfair of Him to ask us to do the impossible.

Love Johan
 
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Johan Abrahams

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We will be perfect yes, but only when we arrive in heaven.
Untill then we have to struggle and strive against temptation to sin.

Arriving in heaven is not our salvation. Jesus is. We need to grow in Him to be perfect. And He said we should give righteousness to the undeserving. Then we will be perfect as His Father is perfect. This is not hard and no struggle when we do it in the Power the Holy Spirit gives.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Love Johan
 
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Johan Abrahams

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Gods grace is "patience and understanding of our physical (soul) weakness'. The spirit is strong, the body weak. The weak body will always have it's own desires separate from Gods will. And that battle will continue until physical death. The spirit given each of us is to save the soul, not the body.

Know yourself.

And the Spirit is the power for us to be full of Grace towards our brothers sisters and those that still need to come to God.

Love Johan
 
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SkyWriting

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Jesus Himself said that we are then perfect as His Father is perfect. Grace is a virtue of God. But it is not an impossible act that Jesus is asking. That would be unfair of Him to ask us to do the impossible.

If you are thinking Jesus told you to become a God just as His father is God
then I indeed He was asking you to do an impossible task.

You being a sinner who will die and be judged, we'll that doesn't fit well.
You do not need saving if you are planning on being perfect.
That would make you the exception to the rule; all have sinned.
 
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SkyWriting

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Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That's just not going to happen physically. But Spiritually, we can be considered perfect
after being cleansed by the work of Jesus.
 
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Shempster

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I'll agree it would be impossible to meet up to the standards that church leaders give us. This is probably why they came up with the term "sinning saints" You know, we are perfect in God's eyes even though we are actually quite rotten. That whole idea is so strange to me. Its rather delusional. It is eerily similar to the set of rules the Pharisees laid on the people. Feelings of condemnation for sin continued even though the teachers told them that they are now clean since they performed the required sacrifice.
We all know they were scamming the people but are we not scamming ourselves with this idea that we are sinners saved by grace.
As a side note, we do all sin...yes. But the sins we encounter should have been a moment of weakness or maybe just a mistake that went wrong. But it seems to me that people who use that term have regular sin that they do. They know they do it and just keep it going, planning it all along.

The whole thing is very confusing until you take a closer look at what makes you not perfect. If you think that disobeying rules from the teachers is sin, then you will never be perfect. You can get accountability partners that try and help and maybe you have a strong willpower and do rather well....that's great but many folks just don't have that kind of discipline.
No, we should look at the commandments of Christ and be perfect in them. They are all about LOVE.
Loving God and your neighbor is the whole of the law. Can we be perfect at that...? Yes. It's not all that hard if you can manage to climb out of your ego suit. Just never do, say or think anything evil of another.
Never cheat them or lie to them. Never hurt anyone's feelings or say anything negative about them.
Never lust after another if you are married. Never look down on someone as less than you if they are poorer, weaker or belong to what you might call a false religion.

If you can do that - then you can be perfect.
 
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Tolworth John

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Arriving in heaven is not our salvation. Jesus is. We need to grow in Him to be perfect. And He said we should give righteousness to the undeserving. Then we will be perfect as His Father is perfect. This is not hard and no struggle when we do it in the Power the Holy Spirit gives.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Love Johan

I'm not interested in 'super spiritual nonsence' only in the reality of living for Jesus.

The command we are to obey is to be perfect as the Lord your God is perfect. So tell me how do you live perfectly from one second to the next.

even the apostle Paul wrote, the EVIL I don't want to do I do etc, are you more spiritual than Paul.

The basic fact of Christian living is that we will FAIL and that we constantly need to seek forgiveness.
 
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Johan Abrahams

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If you are thinking Jesus told you to become a God just as His father is God
then I indeed He was asking you to do an impossible task.

Yep . . . I agree. But He never did that. He asked us to die and accept Him as our new Life. And by Him we will be as His Father because He is as His Father.

You being a sinner who will die and be judged, we'll that doesn't fit well.

Yep . . but I was judged already and died already. Now it is Jesus who Lives His perfect Live in this body.


You do not need saving if you are planning on being perfect.

Nope you are the one that is still trying and not seeing that you are struggling. I stopped because I got Word from God that I am busy wasting my time. Then I saw the Savior. He saved me from myself. Now He is my perfection.


That would make you the exception to the rule; all have sinned.

I agree. . . but Jesus is not sinning.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Love Johan
 
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Johan Abrahams

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That's just not going to happen physically. But Spiritually, we can be considered perfect
after being cleansed by the work of Jesus.

Nope we can not because then we are just perfectly clean. Then we have the righteousness of Christ. But there is much more to Him then just being righteous. But we have started then with the Life of Christ and we need to grow now into more of His Life. And this thread is about growing into and acquiring His grace.

Love Johan
 
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Johan Abrahams

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I'll agree it would be impossible to meet up to the standards that church leaders give us.

They are lying. God has set His own standard. Nothing less than Himself.

This is probably why they came up with the term "sinning saints" You know, we are perfect in God's eyes even though we are actually quite rotten. That whole idea is so strange to me. Its rather delusional. It is eerily similar to the set of rules the Pharisees laid on the people. Feelings of condemnation for sin continued even though the teachers told them that they are now clean since they performed the required sacrifice.

And these will continue till we found our death in Christ.

We all know they were scamming the people but are we not scamming ourselves with this idea that we are sinners saved by grace.

Yep . . .until God told you Himself we are 'scamming" ourselves.

As a side note, we do all sin...yes.

Yep . . .so true.

But the sins we encounter should have been a moment of weakness or maybe just a mistake that went wrong. But it seems to me that people who use that term have regular sin that they do. They know they do it and just keep it going, planning it all along.

There is no excuse.

The whole thing is very confusing until you take a closer look at what makes you not perfect.

Nope . . until God gives you understanding.

If you think that disobeying rules from the teachers is sin, then you will never be perfect.

Sure nothing can make you perfect but He Himself.

You can get accountability partners that try and help and maybe you have a strong willpower and do rather well....that's great but many folks just don't have that kind of discipline.

It is not found in "willpower".

No, we should look at the commandments of Christ and be perfect in them.

Impossible.

They are all about LOVE.
Loving God and your neighbor is the whole of the law. Can we be perfect at that...? Yes. It's not all that hard if you can manage to climb out of your ego suit. Just never do, say or think anything evil of another.
Never cheat them or lie to them. Never hurt anyone's feelings or say anything negative about them.
Never lust after another if you are married. Never look down on someone as less than you if they are poorer, weaker or belong to what you might call a false religion.

Impossible.

If you can do that - then you can be perfect.

Impossible.

But if we find the Live of Christ we find possibility.

Love Johan
 
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Johan Abrahams

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I'm not interested in 'super spiritual nonsence' only in the reality of living for Jesus.

And then there comes a time to die and stop living for Him and allow Him to do the "living".

The command we are to obey is to be perfect as the Lord your God is perfect. So tell me how do you live perfectly from one second to the next.

Impossible.

even the apostle Paul wrote, the EVIL I don't want to do I do etc, are you more spiritual than Paul.

I agree

The basic fact of Christian living is that we will FAIL and that we constantly need to seek forgiveness.

True . . . all these . . .as you said. But then . . .there is more in God than that. There is the saving from ourselves.

Found in our death and allowing Him to Live His Life in our bodies. . . .the perfect Live.
Here . . .being dead we find the perfect standard in Jesus. The standard which God has set. Himself.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Love Johan
 
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To only identify with how God in Christ identified with us, is likened (among other things) to a cake not turned.

Therefore my father loveth me, for I lay down my life, that I might pick it up again.
 
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We will be perfect yes, but only when we arrive in heaven.
Untill then we have to struggle and strive against temptation to sin.
Matthew 16:
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
 
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