Being filled with the Holy Spirit vs tongues

Dave-W

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The one in the OP. The church leadership continually telling the congregation to pray for filling of the Holy Spirit and to "open their mouths and start speaking in tongues" as the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit?
I am glad you see that as an error.

But trying to get people to see their errors when they think they are absolutely right is difficult, if not impossible.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Though tongues can accompany baptism it doesn't usually.
The gift of tongues would either be no longer for today, or else used in extreme circumstances by God today!
Such as missionaries traveling into areas closed to the Gospel until now, and God would choose to confirm the message of jesus by use of a tongue to the people in an unknown language to the missionary using it!
 
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YeshuaFan

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The discussion is not tongues per se, but the doctrine that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

Cessationism is not involved in that discussion.
It is part of this discuss though, for if the tongues as in Acts have creased, how can they be a sign of anything now?
 
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Pethesedzao

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I need clarity on this one; i have heard many pastors in my church asking us to pray for the filling of the Holy Spirit. They also say that the evidence of this in-filling is speaking in tongues. I have searched scriptures and don't find the two connected. Every time this is taught, I get frustrated because it seems not to line up with scripture.
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit according to 1 Cor 12.
Why is this taught in churches? Is baptism with the Holy Spirit evidenced by tongues? What about those who don't speak in tongues, are they not baptized?
Am I missing something here?
The Baptism WITH the Spirit is a one off experience which can take place immediately AFTER conversion. Speaking with new tongues is an evidence of this taking place. Not every believer however, has the Gift of Tongues. After being baptized with the Spirit it's a believers responsibility to be being filled with the Spirit...
 
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Pethesedzao

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The passage is clear that they HEARD, the emphasis being on heard.

6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?... —we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
All those present received the Gift of Tongues.
 
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Dave-W

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The Baptism WITH the Spirit is a one off experience which can take place immediately AFTER conversion. Speaking with new tongues is an evidence of this taking place.
There is no scripture to say that. The passage from Joel 2 Peter quotes in Acts 2 is clear: Your sons and daughters shall PROPHESY, not speak in tongues.
 
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Dave-W

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After being baptized with the Spirit it's a believers responsibility to be being filled with the Spirit...
You are following the error the OP was asking about. “Filled with the Spirit” occurs at new birth, not at the baptism in/with/of/into** the Holy Spirit.

** the preposition in the Greek can be taken any or all of those ways.
 
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YeshuaFan

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The Baptism WITH the Spirit is a one off experience which can take place immediately AFTER conversion. Speaking with new tongues is an evidence of this taking place. Not every believer however, has the Gift of Tongues. After being baptized with the Spirit it's a believers responsibility to be being filled with the Spirit...
All of us are now Baptized though by the Holy Spirit into the Body, so its just indwelling and infilling going on today!
 
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Pethesedzao

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All of us are now Baptized though by the Holy Spirit into the Body, so its just indwelling and infilling going on today!
Yes, all of us have been baptized by One Spirit into Christ Jesus BUT not all believers have been baptized with the Spirit.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The discussion is not tongues per se, but the doctrine that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
The choice of male or female is used as "evidence" that someone is male or female,
but it remains unproven on anonymous internet .
 
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Pethesedzao

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You are following the error the OP was asking about. “Filled with the Spirit” occurs at new birth, not at the baptism in/with/of/into** the Holy Spirit.

** the preposition in the Greek can be taken any or all of those ways.
No, the Baptism WITH the Spirit is a separate experience.
 
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Dave L

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The discussion is not tongues per se, but the doctrine that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

Cessationism is not involved in that discussion.
It proves tongues are not the evidence of having the Holy Spirit today for sure.
 
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Pethesedzao

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There is no scripture to say that. The passage from Joel 2 Peter quotes in Acts 2 is clear: Your sons and daughters shall PROPHESY, not speak in tongues.
Another prophecy in the Old Testament foretells speaking in tongues. Correct, believers will prophesy but not all believers have the Gift or the Ministry of the prophet.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Things happened in Acts that were not to be repeated going forward, as they were done in order to fulfill prophecy and to record the moving from the Old to the New Covenants!
Things happened in Acts that were repeated in our lifetimes, in the last century, and in previous centuries throughout the last 2000 years.
 
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The gift of tongues would either be no longer for today, or else used in extreme circumstances by God today!
Such as missionaries traveling into areas closed to the Gospel until now, and God would choose to confirm the message of jesus by use of a tongue to the people in an unknown language to the missionary using it!
That is just your opinion and puts a limit on what God chooses to do. Tongues are a gift which is part of the Charismatic Catholic Church movement, as all of the gifts of the Spirit are. I personally haven't witnessed anyone employ that gift but I certainly wouldn't say that God doesn't do that any more.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Things happened in Acts that were repeated in our lifetimes, in the last century, and in previous centuries throughout the last 2000 years.
There have been none gifted with healing/miracle gifts as the Apostles themselves were by God in Acts then, and there have been no more speaking in tongues needed to showed one had received the promised Holy Spirit!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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There have been none gifted with healing/miracle gifts as the Apostles themselves were by God in Acts then, and there have been no more speaking in tongues needed to showed one had received the promised Holy Spirit!
You say.
 
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I need clarity on this one; i have heard many pastors in my church asking us to pray for the filling of the Holy Spirit. They also say that the evidence of this in-filling is speaking in tongues. I have searched scriptures and don't find the two connected. Every time this is taught, I get frustrated because it seems not to line up with scripture.
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit according to 1 Cor 12.
Why is this taught in churches? Is baptism with the Holy Spirit evidenced by tongues? What about those who don't speak in tongues, are they not baptized?
Am I missing something here?


Here is a lesson I wrote for my discipleship class on the matter of the Holy Spirit:

1.) What is the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Christian?

- He imparts spiritual life by dwelling within every believer. (Jn. 7:39; Ac. 2:3, 4; Ro. 8:8-11; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; Tit. 3:5, 6)
- He convicts of sin. (Jn. 16:8)
- He illuminates our minds to God's truth. (Lu. 12:12; Jn. 14:26; 16:13)
- He comforts and helps. (Jn. 14:16)
- He enables the believer's obedience. (Ac. 4:7, 8; Ro. 8:13; 15:13, 19; Phil. 2:13)
- He produces in the believer the character of Christ. (Ga. 5:22, 23)
- He is the “down payment” or “guarantee” of a believer's future spiritual and eternal inheritance. (Eph. 1:13, 14)

2.) Is the Holy Spirit ever physically violent in his interactions with believers? Should a believer expect or desire to be “slain in the Spirit”?

No. There is no instance in the entire New Testament, nor is there any teaching in it, that supports the idea that the Holy Spirit in manifestation of himself will act upon anyone with physical violence. Instead, we are told by the apostle Paul that peace and gentleness are fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit. (Ga. 5:22) Even in the instance with lying Ananias and his wife Sapphira, the Holy Spirit does not throw the two around, or convulse them, or make them scream in agony. They simply drop to the ground dead. (Ac. 5:1-11)

Not once in all of the New Testament is anyone “slain in the Spirit.” What's more, not one writer of the New Testament ever uses the phrase or implies such an idea in his writing. Ecstatic prostration accompanied by convulsions, and/or incoherent babbling, and/or manic laughing or crying have no biblical parallel except in instances of demonic possession! (Mk. 9:17-27; Lu. 8:26-36)

3.) Should all believers prove that the Spirit is in them by speaking in tongues and performing miraculous healings?

No. Scripture doesn't even hint at such a test. Instead, those things we are told in the New Testament to expect as signs of the Spirit indwelling the believer are things like holiness (Jn. 16:8), the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, etc. - Ga. 5:22, 23), changed thinking (Eph. 4:23, 24), and transformed desires (Phil. 2:13).

4.) What is the “baptism of the Spirit”?

The answer to this question has become increasingly confused in recent times by the erroneous teaching of two baptisms of the Spirit: One to save a person and another to supernaturally empower them. Does the Bible teach two baptisms of the Spirit? No, it doesn't. The phrase “baptism of the Spirit” refers to one's conversion, to the moment when one is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and thus “made alive” unto God spiritually. Nowhere does the Bible teach a second baptism of the Spirit after one's conversion. In fact, the phrase “baptism of the Spirit” itself does not actually appear in the Bible. The following verses are pertinent to this matter:

Galatians 3:27
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


The lost person is saved by being “baptized into Christ” and made a “new creature” (2 Cor. 5:17) in him. How is one “baptized into Christ”? Paul the apostle explains:

Titus 3:5
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,


The Holy Spirit “washes, regenerates and renews” the lost person, by coming to dwell within him or her (Jn. 14:17; Ro. 8:9). Called the “Spirit of Christ” (Ro. 8:9), the Holy Spirit's presence within a person infuses them with spiritual life, the life of Christ himself, and in this sense the newly born-again person has “put on Christ,” or been “baptized” into him. It is by the Holy Spirit that the lost person, dead in trespasses and sins, is “quickened” or made alive spiritually unto God.

Ephesians 2:1
1 And you
He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Romans 8:10-11
10 And if Christ
is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.


4.) Is there any teaching in Scripture that directs us to expect and seek after a second baptism of the Spirit in order to be specially empowered by God for the performance of supernatural acts?

No. The very first baptism of the Spirit happened at Pentecost, described in Acts 2:1-4. It was at this time that the first born-again believers came to be and the prophecy of John the Baptist was fulfilled:

Matthew 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.


The immediate result of the Spirit indwelling (baptizing) those in the upper room was evangelism. The newly-indwelt disciples began to preach the Gospel in the street, heard by those listening in their own mother tongues (not some unintelligible “spirit language” - Acts 2:7-11) Unfortunately, some have focused on the ability of the first Spirit-indwelt believers to be heard in various tongues and have made speaking in tongues a litmus test for being saved and supernaturally-empowered by God. The tongues in which these first Christians spoke, however, were manifested in order that they might share the Gospel, not prove they were saved or possessed of supernatural power.

Three times in the book of Acts, the Spirit comes upon people (Acts 2:1-4; 10:44-48; 19:1-6), baptizing them spiritually (Ro. 6:1-5) making them “new creatures in Christ.” By this overt supernatural means the Christian Church began. Only in Acts, however, do we read of the Spirit coming upon groups of people this way. What's more, there is no teaching in the New Testament by any of the apostles that a Pentecost-like event should be expected to occur commonly, or that there should be multiple baptisms into the Spirit. Perhaps what is most significant, however, is that there is no recorded instance in the New Testament of anyone being baptized into the Spirit more than once. The apostles are repeatedly filled by the Spirit but this is not the same as being baptized into the Spirit which is to be born-again spiritually.

5.) What does it mean to be “filled with the Spirit”?

When a believer is “quickened,” or made alive spiritually for the first time, the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence (He. 13:5) inside that believer; the believer becomes a “temple” of the Spirit of God. (1 Cor. 6:19, 20) But although the Spirit lives inside the born-again believer, he may not have full control of that believer. So long as this is the case, the believer will not be able to manifest the Spirit's character, wisdom, holiness and power in full degree in his life.

Romans 8:5-6
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those
who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded
is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


The apostle Paul distinguishes between being indwelt by the Spirit and being controlled by him as the the difference between “living by” the Spirit and “walking by” him.

Galatians 5:25
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.


Every born-again believer “lives by the Spirit,” that is, they have spiritual life by virtue of the Spirit being within them. But not every believer is “walking by the Spirit.” They are not living in obedience to the Spirit's will and way, moment-by-moment, throughout each day; they are not resting in his transforming power, patiently trusting him to make them more and more like Christ.

Paul goes further in his letter to the Christians at Rome and explains that being under the control of (“led by”) the Spirit is a mark of being a true child of God:

Romans 8:14
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


When a believer is controlled by the Holy Spirit, when he is spiritually-minded rather than controlled by the impulses of his flesh, the life and power of the Spirit flows without hindrance in him, filling, transforming and equipping him for service to God. This is what it means to be “filled with the Spirit.” As often as a believer steps out of the flow of the Spirit's power by disobedience and self-will, he must turn again to God, submit himself to the Spirit's control, and be filled once more. So it is that a believer may be filled by the Spirit many times throughout his life.

Blaspheming the Spirit.

In a growing section of the evangelical Christian community, the pursuit of a sensual experience of God has led to a kind of blasphemy against the Spirit. In an effort to “experience God,” many believers today are chasing after tingles, warm sensations, and electrical pulses that run over and through them. They cheer at fog (aka “glory clouds”) coming out of air vents, and gasp at gold dust and feathers falling from above. “This is the Spirit of God!” they say. But when they are pressed to explain how they know this, the answer is ultimately “I just know! And if you knew the Spirit like I do, you would, too!” Thus, without good grounds, believers assign to the Holy Spirit experiences and actions to which they cannot adequately connect him. It may well be that he is not involved at all in the things they are feeling and experiencing and so to say that he is amounts to lying about the Spirit which is tantamount to blasphemy.

The apostle James warned of the “wisdom that is not from above” (Ja. 3:15), describing it, among other things, as “sensual,” that is, oriented on what appeals to our physical senses and our emotions. We are fundamentally sensual creatures, interacting with reality in large part through our physical senses. When we are confronted with interacting with God, who is a Spirit and not accessible to our senses like the material reality in which we constantly move, we may begin to try to force an experience of Him that conforms to our natural sensuality. But when we do this, we corrupt and diminish the spiritual nature of our fellowship with God and open ourselves to demonic deception. So it is we are commanded in Scripture:

John 4:23-24
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 God
is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

In the record of Scripture, when God “showed up” He did not resort to fog, feathers and gold dust; He did not confine Himself to trivial things like giving people shivers, and tingles, and warm oozies; He did not make them laugh like maniacs, or writhe about in ecstatic prostration. No, when God manifested Himself, He empowered one man to kill a thousand with the jaw-bone of an ass, the wicked were swallowed alive by the earth, cities were destroyed by heavenly fire, seas were parted, mountain tops were clouded in thunder and lightning, and the dead were raised to life! How is it, then, that the expectations of modern believers of God have grown so small? How is it that so many have settled for a momentary shiver instead of fire from heaven? How is that believers enthuse over gold dust from air vents instead of the conviction of the Holy Spirit driving them to their knees in deep and full confession of, and repentance from, their sins? How is it that when a person claims God is manifesting Himself in these trivial ways, so many are eager to believe it without skepticism? This is where a sensual pursuit of God leads people: Grasping for anything that might provide a sensual experience of God, however silly and trite.

Matthew 12:38-39
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
39 But He (Jesus) answered and said to them, "
An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.


Satan is the Great Counterfeiter. At every turn he is looking to deceive believers with false facsimiles of God's truth, presence and power. He comes to us as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14), offering us half or twisted truths, and/or outright lies made to look like “good sense.” If we aren't “sober and vigilant,” as Scripture warns us to be (1 Pe. 5:8), we will soon fall prey to his deceptions. So, it is that we must have more than “I just know!” as a basis for our claims that the Spirit is at work. If we say, “These shivers are the Holy Spirit!” we must be able to prove it; if we say, “This healing is by the Spirit's will and power!” we must be able to show that it really is; if we say, “This vision is from the Spirit!” we had better be able to fully justify our claim. When believers get in the habit of making unfounded, unproved and unprovable claims about the work of the Spirit, they run the very great risk of falling under false beliefs and the destructive manipulations of the devil.

We would not accept “I just know” from an atheist or Hindu making a case for their beliefs; we would scoff at the man who said, “Zeus exists because I just know He does!” We ought to show the same skepticism toward any believer who makes a claim about the Holy Spirit that cannot be properly justified from Scripture and proved to be true by standard rules of evidence. If someone claims the Holy Spirit gave sight to a blind person, produce the once-blind person for examination and verification of the claim; if someone claims to have healed a person's bad back, let them show there really was a genuine back problem to begin with and that true healing of it has actually occurred; if a person claims the Spirit raised someone from the dead, such an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence in its support. If believers don't insist on solid justification for claims made concerning the Holy Spirit, they will soon become guilty of blaspheming him.
 
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