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Featured Being filled with the Holy Spirit vs tongues

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Loyce KG, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG "Put on Christ and make no room for the flesh"

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    I need clarity on this one; i have heard many pastors in my church asking us to pray for the filling of the Holy Spirit. They also say that the evidence of this in-filling is speaking in tongues. I have searched scriptures and don't find the two connected. Every time this is taught, I get frustrated because it seems not to line up with scripture.
    Speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit according to 1 Cor 12.
    Why is this taught in churches? Is baptism with the Holy Spirit evidenced by tongues? What about those who don't speak in tongues, are they not baptized?
    Am I missing something here?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  2. Southernscotty

    Southernscotty Well-Known Member Supporter Angels Team

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    Dear friend. I am afraid this teaching is not biblical. You are filled with the Holy Spirit at conversion and sealed. Said "fillings" are experienced in Joy, Encouragement, Prayer, Love etc:
    Tongues were never given to "everyone" anyway and they have in my humble opinion ceased long ago.

    However for sake of argument let's "just say they are indeed in effect now"
    The Apostle Paul said he would rather speak 5 words in intelligent language so as to edify the church. So lets decide first if it indeed edifies? Does it? Or is their confusion, Because God is NOT the Author of confusion.

    If people are too speak in a tongue, then it is to be a known language [ Like spanish] Not gibberish and an interpreter present every single time. Is there?
     
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  3. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    There are many places showing that people who are filled by the Holy Spirit did not speak in tongues. You are not missing anything. Being filled by the Holy Spirit is a state that you yield yourself to the Spirit and the will of the Spirit takes over all your actions. What will happen depends on what the Spirit does, and you certainly cannot control the will of the Spirit. Hard to explain, unless you experienced it.

    But people are free to say anything they want, including me. So don't let any teachings bother you if you find it incorrect.
     
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  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You have the Holy Spirit if you believe in Christ. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Peter told believers to repent and they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So the more you repent from sin, in thought and deed, the more full of the Holy Spirit you become.
     
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  5. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Many pentacostals/Charismatics take the experiences recorded down to us in Acts as being normative for all times, but that Book is a transistion between Old to new Covenants, and we are not commanded to speak in tongues, but to keep being refilled in/by the Holy Spirit!
     
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  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Unlike some of my esteemed brothers here, I believe the gifts, including tongues, are still in effect.

    That said, the doctrine you have heard is from classical Pentecostalism, and is not accurate. Presbyterian pastor Brad Long wrote a book “Receiving the Power” which he devotes part of a chapter to distinguishing between “Spirit upon” and “Spirit within.” In it he points out that both testaments are clear and consistent: Spirit within is for godly character and fruit, Spirit upon is for miraculous signs and wonders. Tongues, prophecy, healings, etc. clearly fall into the latter category. The mistaken doctrine of tongues being “THE evidence” was based on a cursory reading of Acts 2 without even doing an in-depth study in English. It is more clear in the Greek. But even in English, it can be seen that there are 2 things going on (if you read it carefully).

    One, the disciples have the spirit poured out ON them, with tongues, etc.

    Two, new people are coming into salvation with the Spirit filling them at their own new birth.

    To top that off, the sign of the outpouring as prophecied in Joel 2 NEVER mentions tongues. It is talking about prophecy.
     
  7. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Speaking in tongues was a miracle because they where speaking languages they never knew or was taught.

    Trust me, I know, I grew up an a church years ago spreading what we call now babble.

    Speaking in babble is no miracle, any one can do it, its easy, but to be able to speak other real languages you never learned? real true miracle of God.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The problem is those who spoke in biblical tongues understood what they were saying. Those who think they speak in tongues today do not know what they are saying.
     
  9. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Actual gift of tongues would be real and unlearned human language, but most of what passes as that today would be "sanctified gibberish!"
     
  10. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    The evidence of being filled with the Spirit is being dead to sin. Romans 6:2. That is first and foremost. 1 John 3:9

    Most Pentecostals don't even realize there are two manifestations of speaking in tongues. The first every believer has according to Mark 16:16-18.

    16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents (Hebrew idiom/slang for protection from enemies); and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

    Those are part of the whole armor of God given to all who believe. Ephesians 6:
    11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

    The church is another entity made up of believers. In 1 Corinthians 12, the church is given gifts of the Spirit for the profit of all.

    The gifts of diverse kinds of tongues and interpretation of tongues are given to only a few to receive messages FROM God that must be interpreted, whereas all the believers pray TO God. Not everyone has the gift of diverse kinds of tongues, nor interpretation of tongues, but all who believe can pray in tongues in the Spirit.
     
  11. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    And there is no one giving forth the interpretation of the message to us in English either usually!
     
  12. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Thgere is though no second act of grace called the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, as we now are ALL baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ once we believe into Jesus as Savior and Lord, and the infilling of the Holy Spirit is where we get that power to overcome our sins and to be bold witnesses for Christ!
    All of the saved can do that, not just those speaking in tongues...
     
  13. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    In Acts 2 all the believers received speaking in tongues TO God. (individual)

    Those same people in Acts 4 received a filling for boldness in ministry with signs and wonders. (church)

    29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

    31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

    You said: All of the saved can do that, not just those speaking in tongues... I would say all who believe do both. We have freedom from sin and put on the whole armor of God, which includes praying in the Spirit.

    We can receive many fillings, sometimes called anointings for other gifts of the Spirit that we pray for and receive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  14. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    That is one understanding. But the instance of the speakers being understood WITHOUT an interpreter is only one time - Acts 2. If what you say was true, there would be no need for Paul to list interpretation of tongues in the list of gifts in 1 Cor 12.
     
  15. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    No, those Jews standing were called devout Jews. God sovereignly gave them the ability to interpret, because 1 Corinthians 14:2 says, no man understands.

    There is no contradictions with God.
     
  16. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    The OP was asking about a particular teaching/doctrine. The question was NOT about whether tongues is for the present day or not. We have stated our positions on that, and since it is related to the OP’s question, I assume it is ok.

    But please, let us take the debate on current usage elsewhere.
     
  17. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Devout Jews — absolutely. But no one really knows if the miracle was in the disciples speaking all of their home languages, or if it was that they HEARD in their home languages. It never says so no doctrine can be truthfully made either way.

    But as I said, the product of tongues comeing out and being understood without an interpreter is only recorded ONCE.
     
  18. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    There was prayer in the 1st century, and there is prayer now, so "current usage" is silly. We are in the New Covenant, and nothing changes inside a covenant until the covenant has ended. 1 Corinthians 13 tells us that is when we see Christ FACE TO FACE. That is the second coming.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not so. Paul said "understanding what is said" is the basis for edification. And that those who spoke in tongues "edified" themselves, unless they interpreted so others could be "edified". = Today's tongues are phony.
     
  20. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    As I said, the topic of Cessation needs to be discussed elsewhere.
     
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