Being A Disciple.

[BookishGirl]

A question came up at a women's Bible study today that has me confused. We were unable to agree and I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this.

The question presented was: Can a person be a Christian and not be a disciple of Jesus Christ?

I would also like everyone's thoughts on what it means to be a disciple. Scriptural support would be helpful.

 

[Bluelion]

Jesus said to take stock to measure whether you were able to be one or not. Remember to be one you must do as Jesus did and the others. How many people you know do that? I am referring to giving up everything and going from place to place spreading The Good News. That is what it takes and why Jesus said take stock to make sure you can do it other wise you will stumble half way through and look like a fool. Luke 14:25

25 A large crowd was following Jesus. He turned around and said to them, 26 “If you want to be my disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. 27 And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple.

28 “But don’t begin until you count the cost. For who would begin construction of a building without first calculating the cost to see if there is enough money to finish it? 29 Otherwise, you might complete only the foundation before running out of money, and then everyone would laugh at you. 30 They would say, ‘There’s the person who started that building and couldn’t afford to finish it!’

31 “Or what king would go to war against another king without first sitting down with his counselors to discuss whether his army of 10,000 could defeat the 20,000 soldiers marching against him? 32 And if he can’t, he will send a delegation to discuss terms of peace while the enemy is still far away. 33 So you cannot become my disciple without giving up everything you own.

34 “Salt is good for seasoning. But if it loses its flavor, how do you make it salty again? 35 Flavorless salt is good neither for the soil nor for the manure pile. It is thrown away. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!”

How many people you know do this?, So yes people can be children of God and not disciples or prophets, Sometimes it is enough we are children and that is all God requires of some. What is expect of us is what God knows we are capable of. A prophet is not greater than the man saved on His death bed and is in Heaven, regardless of who we are and what we do in this world following God's will by God's grace, we are all the same, His children.

 

[Johnnz]

To know Jesus is to allow His life to transform us as we learn from Him. A disciple is a learner. Thus all Christians are disciples by default. Any who do not learn and grow have merely accepted some doctrines about Christ while missing the point of what being a Christ follower really is.

John
NZ

 

[Bluelion]

To know Jesus is to allow His life to transform us as we learn from Him. A disciple is a learner. Thus all Christians are disciples by default. Any who do not learn and grow have merely accepted some doctrines about Christ while missing the point of what being a Christ follower really is.

John
NZ

DId you not read luke or just not understand?

Please provide Bible verse which says this in context. thanks

 

[Johnnz]

DId you not read luke or just not understand?

Please provide Bible verse which says this in context. thanks

Read Luke plus the rest of the NT.

The group Jesus took as his 'trainees' were called disciples from a Greek word for learner. As was the custom of those times a rabbi selected his pupils who he instructed by word and example to follow in his footsteps. Discipleship has learning as its basis.

In Acts the word is used as a description of general believers eg Acts 15:10;`18:23;19:1,9,30.

John
NZ

 

[single eye]

We have heard it said, "And as ye go, preach, saying,The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the leper, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

The real issue is not whether one can be a Christian and not be a disciple. It is impossible to be a Christian and not a disciple. But the question isn't that simple. The real issue is that of someone observing another's life and deciding from that person's actions that they not a disciple, and therefore not a Christian. This is what is actually going on when people ask this question.

As John said, the word "disciple" in the Bible comes from the Greek mathetes, which means "learner." However, there is a far deeper meaning of a form of the word, matheteuo, which means to be a follower, to immerse one's self in the teaching and discipline of the Rabbi, in this case, Jesus Christ.

The word is used only four times in the New Testament, three times in the gospel of Matthew. The first and most provocative is found not long after the Parable of the Sower and the seven parables of the cost of the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 13, NASB
52 And Jesus said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old."​

By "scribe," Jesus did not mean the well-known writers or interpreters of the Mosaic Law that were integral to Israel's understanding of that law and its implications for them. He indicated the evangelical scribes, those who accurately preached the gospel that He was giving them -- the mathetes, or "learner" -- who followed Him daily. They would grow in Him and become these matheteuo to whom Jesus referred, the mean and women who would immerse themselves in Christ.

That is what we as believers are all called to do, but it is not something that is automatic with our imbued faith and the Holy Spirit. To immerse ourselves in Christ requires discipline -- unironically, the very kind of commitment that makes us metheteuo.

So yes, a Christian is a disciple -- methetes, a learner. But the Christian must strive to be a metheteuo, someone fully immersed in Christ. Neither of these is any indication of salvation, and no one has the right to attempt to draw conclusions about your salvation based on what they see in your life. On the even of Jesus' trials and crucifixion, Peter most assuredly would not have seemed a metheteuo -- and he was not acting like one. But his lack of immersion in Christ, his outright denial of knowing Christ, did not affect either his salvation nor his call to service in Christ.

We all have Peter-like moments. Looking at us at those times, outsiders would not think of us as Christian. But as I said, it is not their right to make that judgment, and the fact we are not acting as though we are "immersed" in Christ has no bearing whatsoever on our salvation. Only Christ knows our heart, and even when our heart is darkest, truly belonging to Him through faith means never having to "wonder." Let others talk, speculate, guess. What they think makes no eternal difference.

 

[Emmy]

Dear BookishGirl. To be a disciple of Christ is a Christian, and a Christian follows Christ, our Saviour. What does Christ want from us? Jesus tells us in
Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." This is straightforward and easy to understand.
Jesus tells us also: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants our Love freely given and NO conditions
tagged on. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told:" ask and you shall receive," there we ask for Love and Joy, then thank God, and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour: all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends.
We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all with our neighbour. God sees our loving efforts, and God approves and blesses us.
We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us and carry on Loving and Caring.
The Bible tells us to " Repent and be Born Again," give up our selfish wishes and wants, and simply carry on Loving and Caring. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour, will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. Being a Disciple of Christ is to follow Christ in all we say or do, all we advice and all we stand for, Jesus Christ is our Master and Friend, and we follow Him gladly. I say this with love, BookishGirl. Greetings from Emmy,
your sister in Christ.

 

[Bluelion]

Read Luke plus the rest of the NT.

The group Jesus took as his 'trainees' were called disciples from a Greek word for learner. As was the custom of those times a rabbi selected his pupils who he instructed by word and example to follow in his footsteps. Discipleship has learning as its basis.

In Acts the word is used as a description of general believers eg Acts 15:10;`18:23;19:1,9,30.

John
NZ

so in other words you can't back up what your saying with the Bible, thanks I have my answer, I'll stick to God's word, you understand.

and what you quoted real is bizarre and does not support what you said in any way.

 

[Bluelion]

The real issue is not whether one can be a Christian and not be a disciple. It is impossible to be a Christian and not a disciple. But the question isn't that simple. The real issue is that of someone observing another's life and deciding from that person's actions that they not a disciple, and therefore not a Christian. This is what is actually going on when people ask this question.

As John said, the word "disciple" in the Bible comes from the Greek mathetes, which means "learner." However, there is a far deeper meaning of a form of the word, matheteuo, which means to be a follower, to immerse one's self in the teaching and discipline of the Rabbi, in this case, Jesus Christ.

The word is used only four times in the New Testament, three times in the gospel of Matthew. The first and most provocative is found not long after the Parable of the Sower and the seven parables of the cost of the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 13, NASB
52 And Jesus said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old."​

By "scribe," Jesus did not mean the well-known writers or interpreters of the Mosaic Law that were integral to Israel's understanding of that law and its implications for them. He indicated the evangelical scribes, those who accurately preached the gospel that He was giving them -- the mathetes, or "learner" -- who followed Him daily. They would grow in Him and become these matheteuo to whom Jesus referred, the mean and women who would immerse themselves in Christ.

That is what we as believers are all called to do, but it is not something that is automatic with our imbued faith and the Holy Spirit. To immerse ourselves in Christ requires discipline -- unironically, the very kind of commitment that makes us metheteuo.

So yes, a Christian is a disciple -- methetes, a learner. But the Christian must strive to be a metheteuo, someone fully immersed in Christ. Neither of these is any indication of salvation, and no one has the right to attempt to draw conclusions about your salvation based on what they see in your life. On the even of Jesus' trials and crucifixion, Peter most assuredly would not have seemed a metheteuo -- and he was not acting like one. But his lack of immersion in Christ, his outright denial of knowing Christ, did not affect either his salvation nor his call to service in Christ.

We all have Peter-like moments. Looking at us at those times, outsiders would not think of us as Christian. But as I said, it is not their right to make that judgment, and the fact we are not acting as though we are "immersed" in Christ has no bearing whatsoever on our salvation. Only Christ knows our heart, and even when our heart is darkest, truly belonging to Him through faith means never having to "wonder." Let others talk, speculate, guess. What they think makes no eternal difference.

So if everyone is disciple that means Jesus was saying in luke take stalk if you can handle being saved. Sorry but Jesus never would say choose death because the path to Heaven is to hard for you.

So no not everyone is a disciple unless you can show scripture which says other wise.

 

[skypair]

I take my understanding of disciples from the great commission (Mt 28:18-20, Acts 1:8) .. they have learned and not they are commissioned, they have a stewardship, to go preach whether where they are or far away.

Recall too that Jesus called the 70 men who went out declaring the kingdom of God is at hand, disciples.

In these regards, we can call the youngest Christian a disciple of what he/she knows of Christ and yet Jesus can expect those who know Him best to more responsibility and wider "arenas."

skypair

 

[Free at Calvary]

A question came up at a women's Bible study today that has me confused. We were unable to agree and I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this.

The question presented was: Can a person be a Christian and not be a disciple of Jesus Christ?

I would also like everyone's thoughts on what it means to be a disciple. Scriptural support would be helpful.

We may not agree on the definition of a disciple, but to be one we must leave all to follow Jesus.

Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Not all Christians (born again believers) become disciples. For various reasons they don't commit, such as double mindedness. So yes, I think someone can be a Christian but not a disciple.

 

[Bluelion]

I take my understanding of disciples from the great commission (Mt 28:18-20, Acts 1:8) .. they have learned and not they are commissioned, they have a stewardship, to go preach whether where they are or far away.

Recall too that Jesus called the 70 men who went out declaring the kingdom of God is at hand, disciples.

In these regards, we can call the youngest Christian a disciple of what he/she knows of Christ and yet Jesus can expect those who know Him best to more responsibility and wider "arenas."

skypair

My whole point is you can be a child of God and not a disciple. Jesus would have never spoken that for Luke if everyone was a disciple. The great commission was for us to be witness of Christ, but as you need the whole Bible to get a clear picture we see in luke not everyone can leave everything they own and live like Jesus because that is what it takes, going from place to place.

I like how people ignore God's word and say what they want and believe what they want. Stop casting stumbling blocks before people. For some it is enough that they accept Christ , they might do nothing else, but some are not capable of being disciples as Jesus said.

 

[Somber Warrior]

The real issue is not whether one can be a Christian and not be a disciple. It is impossible to be a Christian and not a disciple. But the question isn't that simple. The real issue is that of someone observing another's life and deciding from that person's actions that they not a disciple, and therefore not a Christian. This is what is actually going on when people ask this question.

As John said, the word "disciple" in the Bible comes from the Greek mathetes, which means "learner." However, there is a far deeper meaning of a form of the word, matheteuo, which means to be a follower, to immerse one's self in the teaching and discipline of the Rabbi, in this case, Jesus Christ.

The word is used only four times in the New Testament, three times in the gospel of Matthew. The first and most provocative is found not long after the Parable of the Sower and the seven parables of the cost of the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 13, NASB
52 And Jesus said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old."​

By "scribe," Jesus did not mean the well-known writers or interpreters of the Mosaic Law that were integral to Israel's understanding of that law and its implications for them. He indicated the evangelical scribes, those who accurately preached the gospel that He was giving them -- the mathetes, or "learner" -- who followed Him daily. They would grow in Him and become these matheteuo to whom Jesus referred, the mean and women who would immerse themselves in Christ.

That is what we as believers are all called to do, but it is not something that is automatic with our imbued faith and the Holy Spirit. To immerse ourselves in Christ requires discipline -- unironically, the very kind of commitment that makes us metheteuo.

So yes, a Christian is a disciple -- methetes, a learner. But the Christian must strive to be a metheteuo, someone fully immersed in Christ. Neither of these is any indication of salvation, and no one has the right to attempt to draw conclusions about your salvation based on what they see in your life. On the even of Jesus' trials and crucifixion, Peter most assuredly would not have seemed a metheteuo -- and he was not acting like one. But his lack of immersion in Christ, his outright denial of knowing Christ, did not affect either his salvation nor his call to service in Christ.

We all have Peter-like moments. Looking at us at those times, outsiders would not think of us as Christian. But as I said, it is not their right to make that judgment, and the fact we are not acting as though we are "immersed" in Christ has no bearing whatsoever on our salvation. Only Christ knows our heart, and even when our heart is darkest, truly belonging to Him through faith means never having to "wonder." Let others talk, speculate, guess. What they think makes no eternal difference.

^ Yup, this ... ^

 

[Bluelion]

Yeah i am still waiting for some one to show me a Bible verse that says that, or is this strictly the popular doctrine of men at the moment?

See in an argument your opinion does not go very far and with God it goes no where, you have to show God's words not your own, this is why we all can go to the store and buy a bible and read God's word. It seems some would have us go back to the Church of England, or to the pharisees days where the only people who could read God's word were those high in the church or temple, everyone else just had to take their word for it. No Thank you

 

[Bluelion]

and for the record that is why the church is falling apart, people using their own words instead of God's, that is not the way the prophets did it. People are sick of that and you know why because when they face heat in the world for their beliefs they can not fall back on God they fall back on what you said, and while you might be able to go to scripture those facing the heat can't, so they burn up and fall away from God. you are not teaching, you have your own agenda, not everyone is a teacher, just like not everyone speaks tongues, and not everyone a disciple. As Jesus clearly said when speaking of parts of the body and some were covered and some not, but the hand could not say to another part of the body you are not needed, for what is a hand with out an arm? So i leave you with what Paul said to the Jews, don't you know they curses God because of you. History repeats.

 

[single eye]

skypair, why not get your understanding of disciples from Mt. 10:7,8? "And as ye go, preach, saying, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils, : freely ye have received, freely give." This seems like a more detailed description of what a disciple should be doing.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

A question came up at a women's Bible study today that has me confused. We were unable to agree and I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this.
The question presented was: Can a person be a Christian and not be a disciple of Jesus Christ?
I would also like everyone's thoughts on what it means to be a disciple. Scriptural support would be helpful.

okay 'bookish' ? eh? ... read every occurence of 'disciple' and see
why
did "disciples of Jesus " (yes, His disciples)
leave Him ? they stopped following Him. why ?

and why were the disciples first called christians? (it wasn't a good name)

and after constantine, why were everybody called "christian" even if they didn't know nor follow Jesus ?

....

finally, how can someone become a disciple, or even saved ?

hint: the answer is in scripture, from God, not from men. God's Message Good News.
(in earthen vessels, but still HIS Message; still HIS Good News).

so reading(a book, the bible) may lead to the answer, but listening to men won't, no matter how smart we are or what we say. (oh, we may lead someone to Christ, but they have to be becoming followers of Him, seeking Him, not followers of us except as we follow Christ (together in Him) ) .
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Jesus says>>>> (listen to HIM)
John 10:10-11King James Version (KJV)

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

 

[miamited]

A question came up at a women's Bible study today that has me confused. We were unable to agree and I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this.

The question presented was: Can a person be a Christian and not be a disciple of Jesus Christ?

I would also like everyone's thoughts on what it means to be a disciple. Scriptural support would be helpful.

Hi BG,

For me, it would depend on whose doing the defining. Today, we label people as 'christian' pretty much just because they go to worship services or give their own testimony as such. When I hear questions such as this I am always drawn to Jesus' own words to his first disciples of the day of his Father's judgment.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

It seems very clear to me that the people that Jesus is going to be speaking to on that day were identified on the earth as 'christians'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[JLR1300]

It seems to me that salvation and discipleship are two different things

Discipleship is said to be costly....salvation is said to be free

Jesus never turns anyone away who comes for salvation.... Jesus turned several away who came for discipleship.

Jesus chose only men to be his disciples.... God chooses men women and children for salvation.

Jesus chose only Jews for disciples.... Jesus chooses peoples of all races for salvation.

One of Jesus' disciples was lost. (Judas).... None of those Jesus gives salvation will be lost.

Discipleship demands works..... Salvation demands faith

In Discipleship, rewards are promised for the sake of works.... In Salvation, Heaven is promised for the sake of grace.

To be saved, you must cease working and rest in Christ... to become a disciple you must cease resting and work for Christ