Before Cleveland Game, Biggest Anthem Protest Yet

Ana the Ist

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Yup...lots of hypocrisy on both sides...

One muslim man drives a car into a crowd killing people and the left replies "Whoa...don't take it out on muslims! They aren't all like that. Don't let one terrorist turn you into a Islamaphobe!"

One nazi/white supremacist drives a car into a crowd killing a person and the left replies "We should do everything we can to harass and intimidate these terrorists every time they try to speak! To do anything less is to side with the nazis!"
 
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Rion

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this could possibly be the most ignorant and misinformed post on CF.

Oh, please enlighten me! I don't want to take your spot for the most ignorant post from when you called a black right-wing person a "shucking and jiving coon" in one of the many Charlottesville thread.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I'm all for anyone being able to protest whatever they want...no matter how dumb I think it is...but what exactly are they protesting against? The anthem itself? Police violence? Racism? The U.S. itself?

When it's this vague...it looks like people are just virtue signalling and looking for attention.

I agree that it's a vague gesture...

I *think* the idea is "I'm not going to sing this song or recite a pledge about how perfect our country is as long as the people in positions of authority are going to blatantly ignore certain issues", however I'm not a mind reader.

...however, like you said, it's vague and would probably be better if they just verbalized that instead of the "taking a knee" approach.

The issue I was pointing out is that there seem to be a few who want to have it both ways, a gesture can't be "meaningless" and "so strong that it should be considered treason" simultaneously.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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They did not enslave an entire race. That makes it sound like they cleared out Africa.

it's difficult to respond to this statement as it makes no sense. the notion that every single African had to have been captured and forced into slavery in order for them to have been targeted by Europeans to be slaves in the "new world" just boggles the mind. the confederates in their declaration deemed Africans as inferior beings destined for servitude by God. the dread scott decision deemed "a negroe has no rights that a white man is to respect".

I didn't realize they were slaves until 1917.

slavery actually didn't end until around this time. the emancipation proclamation merely outlawed slaves being owned by private citizens and this was only in the rebel confederate states. debt slavery and prison slavery continued on into the 1900s and the treatment of these slaves didn't improve.

Lots of people have been oppressed and marginalized in this country. See Irish, Native American, Italian, Japanese, German, and so on. The only two groups I don't think we've oppressed at some point are the British and the French.

so much for "land of the free" eh? jim crowe laws weren't against any of the other people groups you mentioned. just blacks. none of the other social enclaves of these other people groups were burned down by the people and the government. just the black wallstreets.

good job pointing out the fact that the two people groups that weren't oppressed were the ones doing the oppressing. as far as the irish, Italians, and germans, being marginalized and demeaned, this was all done by their fellow Europeans(they did the same to the others as well BTW). round my way we call that 'white on white crime'(which, BTW, is greater than that of black on black crime according to FBI crime data).

Were any of these people oppressed? No. In fact, many are probably richer than a lot of the people they claim are oppressing them.

yes, they were oppressed as they would've ended up like colin kaepernick if they took the same stance on the issue of police injustice against blacks. they knew this, which is why they softened it with "we're just praying for the country". colin didn't hurt anybody or advocate for hurting anybody. he wanted to bring to the attention of the public an issue on injustice based on race and saw it as absurd for anyone to honor a country that oppresses them. the fact that he has money is irrelevant. I would even say it only makes it more of his duty to use his resources and platform to speak out against injustice in this country. saying that he should hush up about injustice being done to his people just because he's paid is basically telling him that he should be selfish and a sellout.


as far as my "shucking and jiving coon" comment. I stand by it and see no reason not to. when a black person is dancing with a bunch of chains on his neck and shaking hands with people who think he and his kind should be exterminated and would blow his brains out if he came anywhere near their daughters(GW Griffith "the birth of a nation" style), that is absolutely a buck-dancing coon. that guy has been buck broken and thinks if he makes friends with the people who hate his existence, maybe they'll pass over him or won't hurt him as much, instead of fighting against those who would want to do harm to you. it's an egregious form of cowardice and a sign of Stockholm syndrome where you sympathize with your abuser.
 
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Belk

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Playing the national anthem isn't political, it's patriotic. All major political parties play the anthem and probably 90% of Americans have no problem with it.

How does who plays it and who has no issue with it make it non political? What does playing a sports game have to do with our country as a whole that it should be invoked prior to playing?
 
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Nithavela

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Phil 1:21

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I agree with the premise of that comment. It boggles my mind that anyone claiming to support the constitution would then fail to support someone's exercise of their constitutional rights. However, trying to pin that hypocrisy on an entire race of people (in this case "white people") is the epitome of prejudice. And if we are going to oppose prejudice we shouldn't engage in it ourselves.
 
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whatbogsends

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Yup...lots of hypocrisy on both sides...

One muslim man drives a car into a crowd killing people and the left replies "Whoa...don't take it out on muslims! They aren't all like that. Don't let one terrorist turn you into a Islamaphobe!"

One nazi/white supremacist drives a car into a crowd killing a person and the left replies "We should do everything we can to harass and intimidate these terrorists every time they try to speak! To do anything less is to side with the nazis!"

See what you did there?

On the one hand, a Muslim terrorist drives a car killing people and people want to condemn all Muslims.

On the other hand, a Christian Nazi drives a car killing people and people want to condemn all Nazis.

If people in the former instance wanted to condemn all terrorists, there'd be no pushback. If people in the latter instance wanted to condemn all Christians, there'd be plenty of pushback, including from the left.

Muslim <> Nazi.

Muslim = Christian. Members of a religion.

Terrorist = Nazi. Members of a group that has violence as part of it's core belief.
 
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Nithavela

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Members of a group that has violence as part of it's core belief.
Many christians believe that islam has violence as part of it's core belief.
 
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BigDaddy4

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As far as what that guy said...I really only object to the notion that black people are "purposely" imprisoned. Blacks commit violent crimes at almost astronomical rates...far higher than whites or other minorities. One would expect to find them as the majority of the prison population.
C'mon now, the reason for the high crime and imprisonment rates is due to racial profiling!
 
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BigDaddy4

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If you stop to think about it, isn't kneeling generally a form of submission or respect (kneeling in prayer, kneeling before a king, etc)? I would think a better protest would be to turn one's back, or just not go out of the locker room until after the anthem.
 
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Ana the Ist

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See what you did there?

On the one hand, a Muslim terrorist drives a car killing people and people want to condemn all Muslims.

On the other hand, a Christian Nazi drives a car killing people and people want to condemn all Nazis.

Oh...was he christian? I was speaking purely on ideology...of which Islam is one.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I agree that it's a vague gesture...

I *think* the idea is "I'm not going to sing this song or recite a pledge about how perfect our country is as long as the people in positions of authority are going to blatantly ignore certain issues", however I'm not a mind reader.

Is that how you see the national anthem? I always took it as a song about the violence which spawned this nation...a reminder that what you have, whatever you have, was ultimately made possible by those willing to lay down their lives.

...however, like you said, it's vague and would probably be better if they just verbalized that instead of the "taking a knee" approach.

The issue I was pointing out is that there seem to be a few who want to have it both ways, a gesture can't be "meaningless" and "so strong that it should be considered treason" simultaneously.

Agreed. Sadly, being outraged at anything is in style...living your life with dignity and treating others with respect regardless of superficialities has gone the way of the dinosaurs.
 
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Rion

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I am on my phone so it is difficult to split quote.

>>It is difficult to respond to this statement as it makes no sense. the notion that every single African had to have been captured and forced into slavery in order for them to have been targeted by Europeans to be slaves in the "new world" just boggles the mind.

Probably because I didn't say that. I said that they didn't enslave an entire race, which the original message claimed.

>>the confederates in their declaration deemed Africans as inferior beings destined for servitude by God. the dread scott decision deemed "a negroe has no rights that a white man is to respect".

Yes, I am aware. Again, I was pointing out that the idea that America enslaved the entirety of Africa was pure hyperbol.

>>slavery actually didn't end until around this time. the emancipation proclamation merely outlawed slaves being owned by private citizens and this was only in the rebel confederate states. debt slavery and prison slavery continued on into the 1900s and the treatment of these slaves didn't improve.

What in the Sam Hill are you talking about? Do you mean prison gangs and sharecropping? I don't think that those were good ideas, but they were not slavery. Many people of various ethnic groups suffered under those.

>>so much for "land of the free" eh?

Nothing in this earthly city is perfect. We should aim to make it as close to the heavenly one as we can, but there's a difference between remembering and learning from the past and using it to justify one's own failures and to nurse grievances.


>> jim crowe laws weren't against any of the other people groups you mentioned. just blacks. none of the other social enclaves of these other people groups were burned down by the people and the government. just the black wallstreets.

You guys had your own wall streets, sounds like privilege to me. /s

Seriously though, the majority of Native Americans never had anything like that because the government essentially retarded their growth by putting them on the government roll.

>>good job pointing out the fact that the two people groups that weren't oppressed were the ones doing the oppressing. as far as the irish, Italians, and germans, being marginalized and demeaned, this was all done by their fellow Europeans(they did the same to the others as well BTW). round my way we call that 'white on white crime'(which, BTW, is greater than that of black on black crime according to FBI crime data).

You really don't want to drag up the FBI data.

>>yes, they were oppressed as they would've ended up like colin kaepernick if they took the same stance on the issue of police injustice against blacks. they knew this, which is why they softened it with "we're just praying for the country". colin didn't hurt anybody or advocate for hurting anybody. he wanted to bring to the attention of the public an issue on injustice based on race and saw it as absurd for anyone to honor a country that oppresses them. the fact that he has money is irrelevant. I would even say it only makes it more of his duty to use his resources and platform to speak out against injustice in this country. saying that he should hush up about injustice being done to his people just because he's paid is basically telling him that he should be selfish and a sellout.

Colin was ostracized because he became toxic. Progressives are always happy to get conservatives black listed, so I don't think that they have room to complain about it when no team wants a guy who harms their bottom line.

>>as far as my "shucking and jiving coon" comment. I stand by it and see no reason not to. when a black person is dancing with a bunch of chains on his neck and shaking hands with people who think he and his kind should be exterminated and would blow his brains out if he came anywhere near their daughters(GW Griffith "the birth of a nation" style), that is absolutely a buck-dancing coon. that guy has been buck broken and thinks if he makes friends with the people who hate his existence, maybe they'll pass over him or won't hurt him as much, instead of fighting against those who would want to do harm to you. it's an egregious form of cowardice and a sign of Stockholm syndrome where you sympathize with your abuser.

Do they want to harm him or was he part of the alt-lite? A lot of people didn't know that the chants were from the Nazis. While this may sound outrageous, consider how many people have no idea what antifa is. I had one guy excuse them because they are communists and "communists are like the Amish." Basically, always apply Hanlon's Razor : never assume malice where ignorance is a sufficient explanation.
 
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TerranceL

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It's not against the rule to say that someone is trolling or has trolled. Only directly saying that someone is a troll is against the rules because that doesn't describe a single behaviour but a person as a whole.
Last I heard it's considered flaming because you are addressing the person and not their argument.
 
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