Be Honest

[Hespera]

Hespera, I don't think that was the point. You are too young to be so angry. I know you don't like it when you are that way.

aww, dont be go over interpreting me..!

 

[Inan3]

As others have pointed out in various ways, a "little friendly sarcasm"can be difficult to distinguish from hatred and viciousness. I guess I should really cut out all sarcasm from my posts, with that in mind.

For vicious hatred we do of course have those here who say things like that all who subscribe to science are controlled by the devil and his demons, that all native americans were "evil" and that god sent the europeans to destroy them for their evil. Im glad its not you saying those things.

I hope you will accept that I dont hate anyone (which I am going to guess that I may have far more reason for some hatred than you do... i certainly hope so) and if i appear to be vicious to you.. which I hope I dont..that it is your interpretation, not my heart.. because Im not a vicious person.

I never really thought you were a vicious person nor anyone else on this forum but at times when we allow ourselves to enter in to criticizing, accusing, or attacking the character of others, we get so caught up in the whirlwind of it all that we do say and think vicious things. That's why occasionally I like to "play" a little. I wasn't angry at The Bear and (I think, sorry SR if it's not) Split Rock but I thought I would throw the ball back at them. As a matter of fact many of the people here on the forum are quite civil if you can get them away from their accusatory stances. Sometimes I would really like to ask some questions but with everyone on their guard (me too) it doesn't seem that we would get any where.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It is everywhere to be found by those who are looking for it. You will NEVER find God's truth as long as you resist Him. You must believe that He is before you will ever know Him or His kingdom.

Bingo. Of course you're going to find him if your presuppose his existence. I could find evidence of magic gravity gnomes if I presuppose their existence. There is a reason such bias is seen with such hostility in statistics: you can justify anything.

WC you only oppose yourself. God is waiting for you. Don't shut Him out of your life forever. There is no one here on this forum or in the scientific arena or educational system or where ever who is worth losing your life with God for. He's for you not against you. Give Him a chance.

So you say. Why should I believe you over, say, the Imam, Yogi, or Bahá'í?

Hespera, I don't think that was the point. You are too young to be so angry. I know you don't like it when you are that way.

You saw anger in her post? *puts on rose-tinted glasses* Ah, there it is.

 

[TheBear]

You think that is funny than you will probably keel over on this.

Dawkins said
I believe it
That settles it

They check their brains in at the door and poke fun of their Creator and refer to themselves as monkies and apes.

Oh we do have fun here on this forum don't we??

Your problem is - you give allegiance to 'authority' figures such as the Bible, pastors, church doctrine, and on. And since you give allegiance to 'authority' figures, you think that everyone gives allegiance to some authority figure. Guess what. You're wrong. So, it's more of a projection on your part. Who's laughing now?

Don't worry, we all get those little warning notifications.


Oh! Oh! I see what you did there! Since you follow God and we don't, you figure we must follow Dawkins and go to all his seminars! So you decided to change the name from God to Dawkins and sheep to monkeys! So that our hypocrisy will be exposed!

Oh, you're just too clever

 

[Inan3]

Your problem is - you give allegiance to 'authority' figures such as the Bible, pastors, church doctrine, and on. And since you give allegiance to 'authority' figures, you think that everyone gives allegiance to some authority figure. Guess what. You're wrong. So, it's more of a projection on your part. Who's laughing now?

I'm sorry have we met? I don't remember sharing any of that information with you. You really have no idea what I think TB. If you would like to know and can be civil just ask me. As for whose laughing now, I don't know. Are you laughing? I can't imagine that you ever really laugh. Maybe sneer or cackle but laugh...I don't know... Have you ever even felt joy? You seem to be a very sad and angry individual. I will pray for you TB because I think you are a hurting person way down deep.

 

[Inan3]

Bingo. Of course you're going to find him if your presuppose his existence. I could find evidence of magic gravity gnomes if I presuppose their existence. There is a reason such bias is seen with such hostility in statistics: you can justify anything.

What are the statistics on lives changing dramatically when they believed in the "magic gravity gnome?" I don't think you will find any. And yet, for thousands of years history has recorded millions of lives changed when people confessed Jesus Christ as their Saviour. I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm just telling you the truth, WC.

 

[gaara4158]

I'm sorry have we met? I don't remember sharing any of that information with you.

You may not have explicitly stated it, but the way you responded to the other post definitely suggested that you do indeed think the way he says you do.

I can't imagine that you ever really laugh. Maybe sneer or cackle but laugh...I don't know... Have you ever even felt joy? You seem to be a very sad and angry individual. I will pray for you TB because I think you are a hurting person way down deep.

While I'm sure this condescension is meant in the spirit of fun, it could easily be misinterpreted as a genuine lash at TB's character. Extrapolating someone's misconceptions from their attempted rebuttal is one thing; drawing conclusions about their personal life and suppressed emotions is another thing entirely. Terribly inappropriate.

What are the statistics on lives changing dramatically when they believed in the "magic gravity gnome?" I don't think you will find any. And yet, for thousands of years history has recorded millions of lives changed when people confessed Jesus Christ as their Saviour. I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm just telling you the truth, WC.

I'd like to see some statistics on how many lives your religion has changed. I don't think you will find anything other than anecdotes. The same can be said about any belief system. You may be telling the truth, but until you justify it we have no reason to believe you.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Bingo. Of course you're going to find him if your presuppose his existence. I could find evidence of magic gravity gnomes if I presuppose their existence. There is a reason such bias is seen with such hostility in statistics: you can justify anything.

What are the statistics on lives changing dramatically when they believed in the "magic gravity gnome?" I don't think you will find any.

Probably not, but I just made it up. There are people whose "lives change dramatically" when the convert to pretty much any religion: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

And yet, for thousands of years history has recorded millions of lives changed when people confessed Jesus Christ as their Saviour. I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm just telling you the truth, WC.

So you say, but if you're not going to justify it, why should I believe you?

 

[Inan3]

Probably not, but I just made it up. There are people whose "lives change dramatically" when the convert to pretty much any religion: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.


So you say, but if you're not going to justify it, why should I believe you?

True Christianity is the only faith where their God or leader has paid the price for them. Jesus laid down His life for us. Every other religion requires the people to WORK to earn their salvation. True Christianity only asks the person to BELIEVE that Christ has done it for them.

I guess I don't know what you mean by my justifying it.

 

[Hespera]

So how does a person believe what she doesnt believe? i cant just say "i believe". Its lying; i dont believe it, and saying i do wont change that.

I can sorta see the sense of earning something but getting it by lying to myself... i dont think so.

 

[pgp_protector]

True Christianity is the only faith where their God or leader has paid the price for them. Jesus laid down His life for us. Every other religion requires the people to WORK to earn their salvation. True Christianity only asks the person to BELIEVE that Christ has done it for them.

I guess I don't know what you mean by my justifying it.

So Dead faith will save you ?
I always was taught faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-26

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

True Christianity is the only faith where their God or leader has paid the price for them. Jesus laid down His life for us. Every other religion requires the people to WORK to earn their salvation.

Most religions don't have a concept of salvation at all, so of those that do, few require actual physical acts to attain it.

I guess I don't know what you mean by my justifying it.

Justification is where you show that it is true (or at least likely to be true). For example, I could justify my claim that there are no fairies under this rock by lifting it up and beholding the utter lack of fairies. We can justify our claim that the Earth is round, or is 4.5 billion years old, or orbits the Sun, by pointing to the evidence gathered.

 

[Inan3]

Most religions don't have a concept of salvation at all, so of those that do, few require actual physical acts to attain it.


Justification is where you show that it is true (or at least likely to be true). For example, I could justify my claim that there are no fairies under this rock by lifting it up and beholding the utter lack of fairies. We can justify our claim that the Earth is round, or is 4.5 billion years old, or orbits the Sun, by pointing to the evidence gathered.

Well, thank you. I knew what justification meant but in light of the fact that science has its own language I thought I had better ask.

 

[Inan3]

So Dead faith will save you ?
I always was taught faith without works is dead.

I know what James says about faith. Your TWIST of what I said though, now that's another story. It's not even in the Bible.

 

[Inan3]

Most religions don't have a concept of salvation at all, so of those that do, few require actual physical acts to attain it.

I chose the following site because it deals with 3 religions and Christianity. It is all on one site.

http://www.evangelical.us/salvation.html

Here's another one.

http://www.helium.com/items/1121705-salvation-and-redemption

 

[pgp_protector]

I know what James says about faith. Your TWIST of what I said though, now that's another story. It's not even in the Bible.

I always was taught faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-26

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[Inan3]

I always was taught faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-26

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

I know what James says in the Bible but it is your TWIST of what I said before, that I am saying is NOT in the Bible.

If you read the entire context of James you will see that he is talking about putting action to your faith. Before I became a Christian I believed in Jesus and that He died on the cross but I didn't make it personal. I didn't apply it to MY life. As a matter of fact I thought God wouldn't want to have anything to do with me because I was such a sinner (I'd been taught that in church.) It was not until I put action to that belief that He died for ME He took MY place of judgement and receiving Him as MY Saviour. I gave HIM MY life and asked HIM to forgive me and come into my life. That is when faith happened. Faith is an act. It is more than just a belief. It is more than just religious works. Faith is a RELIANCE upon what Christ has done FOR you. I trusted God. I took Him at His Word. As the One who purchased MY salvation. Died for ME. I made it personal. That is the "works" I did.

As James said in that context, even the devils believe in Him but they are not saved because they chose rather to rebel against Him...so now they tremble.

The context says don't just say to your brother be fed, be filled what good is that? Put some action to your statement. Act like you mean it. Give him some bread. If all it took for one to be "saved" was to give someone some bread when they asked for it, then 1 Cor 13 would be in contradiction to that. The scriptures do not contradict each other but compliment each other and explain each other.

1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.


What James was saying was, it's all well and good that you believe but if you don't put some action to your faith its not going to profit you anything. It's the receiving of Jesus Christ into your life as YOUR Lord and Saviour that makes the difference in your life. Not just believing that He exists or even that He died on the cross. Even the devils do that. Jesus said. why do you call me Lord and don't do the things that I say. If you believe in Jesus as your Lord you will do what He says.

In Rom 10: 9 & 10 you will see that the heart believes but the mouth needs to confess (action) that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If someone really believes they will tell others and they will seek the Lord because they want to know all about Him and what He wants them to do. They will talk to Him because they BELIEVE He rose from the dead. They BELIEVE He is alive. They believe what He said in the Word of God. So they live like it. If God says, He causes me to ALWAYS triumph in Christ Jesus. I'm not going to worry and cry and act like I am defeated all the time. I'm going to have confidence that no matter what it looks like I'm going to have the victory in it. This is the kind of faith that brings results. You don't go by what you see or feel you go by what He says about it.

But NO ONE gets to Heaven based on THEIR good works or deeds. It is based on the good works of Jesus Christ alone. We just have to believe that HIS good works are acceptable to God on our behalf. The scripture says HE became sin that I might become the righteouness of God in HIM. That's it. I believe that. I AM as righteous as Jesus because of that! Righteousness simply means right standing. Because of Jesus I have right standing with God.

The faith James was speaking of was a daily faith affirming that I AM a follower of Christ. Faith is something that comes and develops as you continue to hear the Word of God. Faith is something you walk in daily. It is not good works that I do that I think wins me brownie points with the Lord. Jesus said some will say to Him, "Lord haven't I done all these things in your name," and He will say, "depart from me you that work iniquity, I NEVER knew you."

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I chose the following site because it deals with 3 religions and Christianity. It is all on one site.

http://www.evangelical.us/salvation.html

Here's another one.

http://www.helium.com/items/1121705-salvation-and-redemption

Gross oversimplification of Hindu and Buddhist beliefs, twisting them to make them analogous to Christian ones. Samsara is not something one is 'saved' from.

The first site says that, in Christianity, salvation is a free gift. Err, no, it isn't: it's only given to those who believe. Those who don't believe aren't saved and don't go to Heaven.

Unless you subscribe to the minority belief of Universalism.

And then there's the fact that there are literally hundreds of religions, not all of which have a concept of 'salvation'.

 

[sbvera13]

There is no salvation in Buddhism. You may be thinking of enlightenment, which is not the same thing.

If you can't get your representations of other religions right, why should I bother to listen to yours? You obviously havn't done much honest research.

 

[Inan3]

There is no salvation in Buddhism. You may be thinking of enlightenment, which is not the same thing.

If you can't get your representations of other religions right, why should I bother to listen to yours? You obviously havn't done much honest research.

Oh it is more than enlightenment. Perhaps it is not CALLED salvation but basically it means the same. They are looking for the true spiritual path to the end of suffering.