Battles of the Patriarchs?

[Unquirer]

I found this article to be fascinating in how the Pope has been a moderating voice in this dispute. What do you all hope for with this situation, or expect to happen?

Orthodox Church Leaders Duel Over Ukraine, Meet With Pope Francis

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...ders-duel-over-ukraine-meet-with-pope-francis

 

[buzuxi02]

The Kievan regime wants a national church. They are looking for support by the EP to recognize the CIA creation known as the Kievan patriarchate. The pope is just looking out for his own interests as the Kievan government wants the Unia to leave Rome and merge into their newly invented church.

 

[archer75]

Does anyone think the ROC could go into schism over this?

 

[ArmyMatt]

for one, the article is misleading. there is no battle going on in Ukraine. there are a bunch of schismatics who want an independence that cannot be granted by the EP. a lot of folks would break with Constantinople if they did this, and while Constantinople has not formally decided, they have said in the past only Moscow can grant autocephaly.

this is just Catholic hogwash to make the Pope seem more important than he actually is.

 

[Unquirer]

So if the EP wouldn't grant it (assuming he wouldn't), what do you all think the likeliheood of ROC giving autocephaly to Ukraine? Also is that something you hope or envision? I doubt it is too likely in the current day political climate, especially with Russian control/influence over Ukraine.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No.

Does anyone think the ROC could go into schism over this?

 

[jckstraw72]

The canonical Church in the Ukraine is not interested in autocephaly, so it's unlikely the Russian Church will grant it, although, in my personal opinion, Met. Onuphry would make a great patriarch for a Ukrainian Church.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So if the EP wouldn't grant it (assuming he wouldn't), what do you all think the likeliheood of ROC giving autocephaly to Ukraine? Also is that something you hope or envision? I doubt it is too likely in the current day political climate, especially with Russian control/influence over Ukraine.

it's not just that His All Holiness would not grant it, he does not have the authority to grant it.

 

[archer75]

The canonical Church in the Ukraine is not interested in autocephaly, so it's unlikely the Russian Church will grant it, although, in my personal opinion, Met. Onuphry would make a great patriarch for a Ukrainian Church.

Why do you think he would be good (not disagreeing)?

 

[buzuxi02]

So if the EP wouldn't grant it (assuming he wouldn't), what do you all think the likeliheood of ROC giving autocephaly to Ukraine? Also is that something you hope or envision? I doubt it is too likely in the current day political climate, especially with Russian control/influence over Ukraine.

The canonical Church of Ukraine is more than autonomous. All the Kiev regime and this pseudo Patriarch want is for Constantinople to acknowledge them as legitimate Orthodox. This would give them credibility in the eyes of the Orthodox world as all consider them schismatic Sergianists.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The canonical Church of Ukraine is more than autonomous. All the Kiev regime and this pseudo Patriarch want is for Constantinople to acknowledge them as legitimate Orthodox. This would give them credibility in the eyes of the Orthodox world as all consider them schismatic Sergianists.

and, I should point out, no Synod supports the schismatics at all. all support the canonical Church under Moscow.

 

[archer75]

and, I should point out, no Synod supports the schismatics at all. all support the canonical Church under Moscow.

Why is His All-Holiness considering this? I am missing something here. Or a lot.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Why is His All-Holiness considering this? I am missing something here. Or a lot.

because the schismatics asked him to

 

[jckstraw72]

We don't know how much he is actually considering it. He might have just initiated these talks with the other Churches about it to get the schismatics to finally leave him alone. But then again, we'll see.

 

[jckstraw72]

Why do you think he would be good (not disagreeing)?

He just strikes me as a true Christian. He is long-suffering and humble. All of this mess with the fighting schismatics has got to be a terrible strain on someone who isn't supported by prayer. All the other patriarchs consistently talk about how much they love and respect him and that he is a holy man. The Patriarch of Jerusalem even recently said he believes Met. Onuphry was put in this position by God in order to overcome the schisms.

And it just seems that he is greatly loved by the Ukrainian people who aren't too busy creating an identity out of hating Russia.

 

[ArmyMatt]

We don't know how much he is actually considering it. He might have just initiated these talks with the other Churches about it to get the schismatics to finally leave him alone. But then again, we'll see.

I don't really think he is. even his auxiliary bishops have only expressed support for the canonical Church.

 

[Anhelyna]

My only comment about this - and you all know about my ties , past and present with Ukraine [ we have a Ukrainian Abbot visiting our Community at present ] - is that there is a very real political aspect to this.

I've said my piece - please keep the people of Ukraine in your prayers whilst all this is discussed among the Churches involved.

 

[rusmeister]

In reference to the OP title...

 

[abacabb3]

So if the EP wouldn't grant it (assuming he wouldn't), what do you all think the likeliheood of ROC giving autocephaly to Ukraine? Also is that something you hope or envision? I doubt it is too likely in the current day political climate, especially with Russian control/influence over Ukraine.

If the schismatics were able to get the uniates to join them, then grant them autocephaly

 

[ArmyMatt]

If the schismatics were able to get the uniates to join them, then grant them autocephaly

they all can unite if they like, as they are all outside of the Church