Battles of the Patriarchs?

[gurneyhalleck1]

Take that, Father Matt!!! Episode III, baby!! Episode III!!!

In reference to the OP title...

 

[abacabb3]

they all can unite if they like, as they are all outside of the Church

It seems to me that the Ukrainians don't really want to be a separate church longer term, its just politics. So, they may very well come back. If they grab uniates along with them so be it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It seems to me that the Ukrainians don't really want to be a separate church longer term, its just politics. So, they may very well come back. If they grab uniates along with them so be it.

they can only do it through Moscow, who they have said they will never come under.

 

[Unquirer]

Remind me again how "the schismatics" differ in matters of faith and practice?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Remind me again how "the schismatics" differ in matters of faith and practice?

nothing in terms of either. they are disobedient to the authority of the Church, and break away because of that.

 

[abacabb3]

they can only do it through Moscow, who they have said they will never come under.

Yeah, but didn't ROCOR say that? And how about the two century captivity of the Balkans under the Ecumenical Patriarch? The Church always pulls through.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, but didn't ROCOR say that? And how about the two century captivity of the Balkans under the Ecumenical Patriarch? The Church always pulls through.

ROCOR did come back under Moscow. the reasons for the schism with Moscow were different for both groups,

 

[abacabb3]

ROCOR did come back under Moscow. the reasons for the schism with Moscow were different for both groups,

Wiki says their patriarchal headquarters is Moscow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia

 

[ArmyMatt]

Wiki says their patriarchal headquarters is Moscow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia

right, because Moscow is ROCOR's Patriarch.

 

[abacabb3]

right, because Moscow is ROCOR's Patriarch.

So, aren't they jurisidictionally under Moscow as they are only semi-autonomous...something unthinkable during their schism?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So, aren't they jurisidictionally under Moscow as they are only semi-autonomous...something unthinkable during their schism?

they are autonomous. and they are because post fall of communism Russia showed what ROCOR feared was gone

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I bought this Battle of the Patriarchs on Pay per View. It was a real let down. It was like Tyson-Spinks.

 

[RobNJ]

I bought this Battle of the Patriarchs on Pay per View. It was a real let down. It was like Tyson-Spinks.

The rematch is shaping up to be better...

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Let's just hope General Order 66 doesn't kick in again like in Soviet times!

The rematch is shaping up to be better...View attachment 237465

 

[abacabb3]

they are autonomous. and they are because post fall of communism Russia showed what ROCOR feared was gone

Should you fix wiki? And further, without a Patriarchate, how are they completely autonomous? On some level, their legitimacy appears to stem from their communion with Moscow.

 

[prodromos]

Should you fix wiki? And further, without a Patriarchate, how are they completely autonomous? On some level, their legitimacy appears to stem from their communion with Moscow.

Cyprus is autonomous and doesn't have a Patriarch.

 

[abacabb3]

Cyprus is autonomous and doesn't have a Patriarch.

Good point, I am speaking above my paygrade, I am merely going over what I read online. It just seems like everywhere I look, including Orthodox Wiki, states that ROCOR is now jurisdictionally in some way under Russia. https://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia

 

[ArmyMatt]

Should you fix wiki? And further, without a Patriarchate, how are they completely autonomous? On some level, their legitimacy appears to stem from their communion with Moscow.

autonomy is not autocephaly. they now have a Patriarch, and that is Moscow. but you don't need a Patriarch. Albania, Greece, OCA, Poland, the Czech don't have Patriarchs

 

[abacabb3]

autonomy is not autocephaly. they now have a Patriarch, and that is Moscow. but you don't need a Patriarch. Albania, Greece, OCA, Poland, the Czech don't have Patriarchs

So they are under Moscow spiritually, no?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So they are under Moscow spiritually, no?

yes, ROCOR is back under Moscow