Baptized in the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

[ICONO'CLAST]

Oh? So what is your definition of faith? Is it sitting around like a wooden Indian waiting for God to do something, or is it getting off your acre and doing what God tells you to do in Scripture?

Faith is the instrumentality for laying hold of the promises of God.

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

heb11;
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Right. But what is his PURPOSE? Is it to draw people to Christ or to draw people away from Him?

If signs and wonders cause people to turn to Christ, wouldn't Satan be shooting himself in the foot by doing something that is doing harm to his kingdom of darkness?

signs and wonders do not draw men to Christ.that was not the purpose of the signs and wonders.
jn12:37
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

We are starting a new thread on Apostolic uniqueness

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

signs and wonders do not draw men to Christ.that was not the purpose of the signs and wonders.
jn12:37
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

We are starting a new thread on Apostolic uniqueness

But what puts a spanner into those works is the healing of the lame man at the temple by Peter and John. As the result of that healing, 5000 men, not counting women and children came to Christ. Also, the signs and wonders that Paul performed as part of his ministry caused whole communities to turn to Christ. So when signs and wonders occurred in pagan communities along with the preaching of the gospel, there were wholesale conversions.

It was not the common people in Jesus' time who refused to believe in Him in spite of his miracles, it were the Pharisees and Scribes, the prejudiced religious leaders who refused to believe in Him even they they witnessed the miracles. They accused Jesus of working His miracles through the power of Satan.

A careful study of Hermeneutics will assist you to interpret Scripture correctly.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I hope you were not in this video....

Not me! I'm more private about my worship of God. I don't do it like that in front of people. I do it before God when He is the only Person to witness it.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

But what puts a spanner into those works is the healing of the lame man at the temple by Peter and John. As the result of that healing, 5000 men, not counting women and children came to Christ. Also, the signs and wonders that Paul performed as part of his ministry caused whole communities to turn to Christ. So when signs and wonders occurred in pagan communities along with the preaching of the gospel, there were wholesale conversions.

It was not the common people in Jesus' time who refused to believe in Him in spite of his miracles, it were the Pharisees and Scribes, the prejudiced religious leaders who refused to believe in Him even they they witnessed the miracles. They accused Jesus of working His miracles through the power of Satan.

A careful study of Hermeneutics will assist you to interpret Scripture correctly.

Come over to the signs of the Apostles thread and see what biblical study will do for you

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I would have to say to you
beware of them first who are baptized in the spirit
and lie to you in your own tongue.

As for the other
that is up to the Spirit as it gives utterance.

Beware of giving counsel without knowledge and experience. Remember that we all have to give an account of everything we do and say to God one day.
If there are people who are genuinely converted to Christ and baptised with the Spirit, and you are accusing them of being liars, then you may be accusing the Holy Spirit who is in them. And the Holy Spirit doesn't like that. Like Michal who criticised David for dancing before the Lord, and was rebuked by the Lord, and remained barren for the rest of her life, so those who accuse and grieve the Holy Spirit by accusing His servants of being liars and deceiver, will receive the rebuke of God and be spiritually barren for the rest of their lives.
Didn't Jesus say that if you do something even to the least of His disciples, you have done it unto Me? Would you call Jesus a liar to His face?
Then why would you call His servants and representative liars, especially if you can't provide substantive proof that they are actually lying. And if the accusation is true, it can be validated only by three reliable witnesses.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Come over to the signs of the Apostles thread and see what biblical study will do for you

Okay.

 

[corinth77777]

I wouldnt want to speculate on such a question. Thank you however for the reply.

I BELIEVE THE NAME IS Kandalini yoga
Google it...

 

[mark kennedy]

I have heard people say that if you dont speak in tongues then you're not baptized in this spirit. Is this true or false? Is it biblical or not biblical? Thank you.

False, you will get that from Oneness Pentecostals but not from mainstream Pentecostals. The Pentecostal movement came out of the Holiness Movement that believed in something called entire sanctification which was transposed into the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues. They are wonderful soul winners, blessed beyond measure and I am very grateful for their Christian service speaking only as a single believer. Most Pentecostals believe in justification by grace through faith even if they don't call it that, doctrinally they are generally pretty solid.

The Azusa Street Revival, was a wonderful time of fellowship where blacks and whites fellow shipped together when this was simply not done. In 1915 at Hot Springs Arkansas the white Pentecostals broke from the COGIC churches right down ethnic lines, C.H. Mason could have condemned the strangely racist mentality of the rift but instead blessed them saying, 'May the waters bring forth abundantly', and they did, the Assemblies of God became a very missionary minded movement, still are to this day. In Arkansas a smaller group that would be known as Apostolics or Oneness denied the Trinity and said if you didn't speak in tongues, were baptized in Jesus name you were not saved. They were shunned by the Assemblies of God as a nonchristian cult. Stickily non-biblical.

 

[JLB777]

This is the difference between "Spirit Within" and "Spirit Upon."

Within (the indwelling) occurs at New Birth and promotes spiritual growth in wisdom, godly character, freedom from sin.

Spirit Upon OTOH is for acts of power and demonstration of God and His characteristics. The outward sign gifts of 1 Cor 12 fall into this category so Baptism in/with/of the Holy Spirit is "Spirit Upon."

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4


The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is when believers are filled with the Holy Spirit, inside of them.


There are signs that we can hear and see (evidence) when this occurs.


This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:32-33


You should actually experience this for yourself before you try to teach people about it.



JLB

 

[mark kennedy]

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4


The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is when believers are filled with the Holy Spirit, inside of them.


There are signs that we can hear and see (evidence) when this occurs.


This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:32-33


You should actually experience this for yourself before you try to teach people about it.



JLB

It's learned behaviour, bearing only superficial reseblance to a real language.

 

[yaacotd]

Beware of giving counsel without knowledge and experience. Remember that we all have to give an account of everything we do and say to God one day.
If there are people who are genuinely converted to Christ and baptised with the Spirit, and you are accusing them of being liars, then you may be accusing the Holy Spirit who is in them. And the Holy Spirit doesn't like that. Like Michal who criticised David for dancing before the Lord, and was rebuked by the Lord, and remained barren for the rest of her life, so those who accuse and grieve the Holy Spirit by accusing His servants of being liars and deceiver, will receive the rebuke of God and be spiritually barren for the rest of their lives.
Didn't Jesus say that if you do something even to the least of His disciples, you have done it unto Me? Would you call Jesus a liar to His face?
Then why would you call His servants and representative liars, especially if you can't provide substantive proof that they are actually lying. And if the accusation is true, it can be validated only by three reliable witnesses.

Beware of giving counsel without knowledge and experience.

 

[mark kennedy]

The Truth About Tongues

 

[FredVB]

So what is your definition of faith? Is it sitting around like a wooden Indian waiting for God to do something, or is it getting off your acre and doing what God tells you to do in Scripture?

Faith is the instrumentality for laying hold of the promises of God.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

heb11

Faith is trust we will have in what is revealed to us with our response to God's work of grace with us. It is possible through Christ with what he has done. From this we will be enabled to be doing things in godliness, that would not happen otherwise.

 

[FredVB]

I have heard people say that if you dont speak in tongues then you're not baptized in this spirit. Is this true or false? Is it biblical or not biblical? Thank you.

There are Pentecostals who say that. No, the Bible really does not say that. I am baptized in the Spirit, and don't speak in tongues. Certainly it is not all believers who speak in tongues. All true believers, those in Christ, with the repentant faith, are baptized in the Spirit. Water baptism, for one thing, symbolizes that. But there was the false practice passed as the gift of tongues, that practice of ecstatic speech that does not consist of any actual meaningful language. Do any really show the real gift of tongues now? Does showing it bring people to Christ, or is it distracting from that?

The Truth About Tongues

There are good points in some links. But as I say on other occasions, links should be used in the manner of footnotes being used, to link to supportive information, but not be used as what is exclusively posted to lead to an outside site, to show, this is what my pastor says, believe him. Please actually make points of your argument yourself, there are good points, use links just to support what you yourself would say in your own words.

There is the issue that people posting want to communicate their points to each other, in the discussion for it, people don't want to argue with the points to communication of an outside site of one who is not involved with communication here at all and is not concerned with it.

 

[FredVB]

I did rry speaking in tongues, a long while ago for me, early on as a believer, before I was twenty. Another person was telling me being born in the Spirit enabled believers to speak in tongues, so that I should willingly just start speaking the utterances that I would not understand, that would be the gift of tongues. So I did, then. I did not do that for a long period. I did not have peace about it, there was no testimony to my spirit that this was not utterances that any might do, on their own, and there was no resemblance in structure to sentences that I might recognize as such in my language or a few others I had heard, even not understanding most of those.

I became more aware that tongues which were the gift, shown in the Bible, were evident miracles. They were necessarily recognized as such, and so distinct from ecstatic speech, that is glossalalia, which was contemporary in cults around the empire in those early times. The gift of tongues was recognized as being other languages not known to the speakers. At least there were times those languages were known to others.