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Featured Baptized in the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by W2L, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I have heard people say that if you dont speak in tongues then you're not baptized in this spirit. Is this true or false? Is it biblical or not biblical? Thank you.
     
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  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Grandparent of six grandchildren, #7 on the way! Supporter

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    It is classic Pentecostal doctrine, but is not really accurate, scripturally speaking. Even the texts they quote do not list "tongues" as evidence; rather it lists prophecy.

    Read Acts 2 where Peter quotes from Joel 2.

    Your sons and daughters shall PROPHESY.
     
  3. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Dave. Good point.
     
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  4. musicalpilgrim

    musicalpilgrim pilgrim on the sacred music pathway Supporter Angels Team

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    you may find help on the Pentecostal site, statement of faith
    Pentecostal & Assemblies of God

    From my experience, the Holy Spirit is given at conversion, and the gift of tongues comes with the package when baptised in the Spirit. But essentially it is the power to witness

    The main teaching in the New Testament is that you shall receive power when the Spirit comes upon you. Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
     
  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Grandparent of six grandchildren, #7 on the way! Supporter

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    This is the difference between "Spirit Within" and "Spirit Upon."

    Within (the indwelling) occurs at New Birth and promotes spiritual growth in wisdom, godly character, freedom from sin.

    Spirit Upon OTOH is for acts of power and demonstration of God and His characteristics. The outward sign gifts of 1 Cor 12 fall into this category so Baptism in/with/of the Holy Spirit is "Spirit Upon."
     
  6. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Paul says that not everyone has the gift of tongues. Isnt that true?
     
  7. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    I will simply quote 1 Corinthians 12:

    1 Corinthians 12:29-31 NASB All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? (30) All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? (31) But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.

    Let the reader understand.
     
  8. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  9. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My advice is to repeat your question on either the Spirit-filled/Charismatic or the Pentecostal forum. Your question will welcomed there, and you will get helpful answers. Because there is no debating by non-Charismatics on those forums, you won't get trolled and the waters muddied.

    The thread on this forum, as has been with every other thread concerning tongues here, will descend into vain and useless arguments and repeated claptrap by Cessationists giving you the old chestnuts as to why tongues is false, of the devil, ceased after the Apostolic Age, etc. You don't need that. You want your question answered, and if you go to the forums I suggest, you will get a good range of answers that will assist you.
     
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  10. AshAnn

    AshAnn New Member Supporter

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    My husband did not start speaking in tounges until after he was born again, baptized AND he prayed and wanted it. Think of it this way, if you want to jump over a puddle but refuse to move your feet what will happen ?
    For me after water baptism I wanted it and pastors laid hands and it happened. Just muttered a few things but in time I kept praying in the spirit and it flows naturally.
     
  11. musicalpilgrim

    musicalpilgrim pilgrim on the sacred music pathway Supporter Angels Team

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    1 Corinthians 12:30
    29 Are we all apostles? Are we all prophets? Are we all teachers? Do we all have the power to do miracles? 30 Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not! 31 So you should earnestly desire the most helpful gifts.

    The answer to your question is plainly in the Bible, do you question it?
     
  12. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Going through Acts you find accounts where tongues is manifested when baptized in the Spirit and accounts when it is not. However, the majority of the time tongues is manifested. But to plainly answer your question, No, it is not necessary.
     
  13. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    No, i dont question scripture. Thanks for the reply.
     
  14. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  15. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I dont usually fair well on charismatic forums. I have been goaded and reported on the charismatic forum so i dont post there often
     
  16. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Like paul said, its better to prophesy. To also quote Paul, I would rather speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.
     
  17. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    I think Pentecostals got it wrong on two counts here. The major one being what constitutes "baptism with the Spirit". They have a first class/second class view of the Christian community distinguish by an "experience" evidence by "speaking in tongues", which is not supported in scripture.

    The only verse is the letters to the Christians (Romans to Revelation) that even contain both the word baptize and Spirit is 1Cor 12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body——whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free——and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." Which itself conflicts with the Pentecostal concept of a class system. And the context of that verse Paul is criticizing the church for its discrimination inflating things like the gift of tongues above other gifts, which is precisely what the Pentecostals do.

    We were all baptized because the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same as when we receive the Holy Spirit. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Rom 8:9

    Case in point: Cornelius
    As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.Acts 11:14,15

    Ac 10:47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"

    These two are equivalent. Baptized with the Holy Spirit is the same as receiving the Holy Spirit.

    As for speaking in tongues, Paul also says, "Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?" 1Cor 12:30 Tongues is not the exalted gift (by the way, easily faked) which Pentecostals make it out to be in comparison to other gifts. Nor does having other spiritual gifts dependent upon having tongues.
     
  18. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  19. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. 1 Cor 12:13 says all believers are baptized in the Spirit.

    "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[a] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit."

    If you are not baptized in the Spirit you are not part of the body of Christ. It is a baptism that unites all believers into one body, not a baptism that divides believers into the haves and the have-nots.
     
  20. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That's a real pity. I guess Charismatics are human and susceptible to the flesh as any of us!

    To try and answer your question:

    The baptism with the Spirit is when you are filled with the Spirit for the first time. Tongues is part of the "toolkit" that comes with the filling of the Spirit. If you use the idea of a motor mechanic. The baptism with the Spirit is like the mechanic receiving his A grade Mechanic's certificate. That makes him a qualified mechanic. When he gets a job as a mechanic, he is given the tools. The tools don't make him a mechanic, but they assist him to do his job effectively.

    It is interesting to me to examine Church history, and the Holiness preacher Guy Bevington had a drunk come into his church, and Bevington got him all cleaned up and the guy sobered up and said, "I'm saved now. I'm a Christian!" Bevington said, "No. You've just got religion. You need to be sanctified." He continued in prayer with him until the guy was transformed and truly converted. Methodist Holiness preachers called that the baptism with the Spirit.

    Joseph Alleine, the 17th Century Puritan divine, wrote that a person had to seek God until he was genuinely converted, This was the transforming work of the Holy Spirit.

    Now the Pentecostals and Charismatics say that the baptism with the Spirit, with or without tongues, entirely transforms a person.

    Now thinking about that, i saw that although there are three different ways of naming it, each one has identical results! It seems silly to me that one has to have three experiences to achieve the same result - conversion, baptism with the Spirit, and entire sanctification. What if there is only one experience that transforms a person, and each stage in history it was called "genuine conversion" (17th Century); "entire sanctifcation" (19th Century); "baptism with the Spirit" (20th Century)?

    In Acts, the three main examples involved Christian conversion with the baptism with the Spirit, and so my thinking seems to be consistent with those examples.

    Interesting...
     
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