Baptists answer here

[RightwingConspirator]

Do you think that if we are saved by grace through faith, we must be obedient too? If I say that I believe that I am saved by grace through faith and repentance, is that offensive? Would your church welcome me or argue with me or accept a small difference in belief if there is. I don't believe I am saved through my "own" workings, but that my faith must be active. "responsible grace".

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Being a Baptist in the past, I think that you've got the right attitude towards salvation.

In a nutshell, let me explain what J.C. Ryle, the noted Anglican Bishop says.

Salvation has two parts, Justification and Sanctification, you must have both of these to be saved. Justification is entirely God's work, the pentitent thief on the cross and the Apostle Paul are equally justified in God's eyes. Sanctification is our process, through God, that we become more Christlike through prayer, Bible study and fellowship with other believers. A justified person, will become sanctified to some extent. A sanctified person must first be justified before God.

 

[puriteen18]

No. Not because I believe you can do whatever you want and be saved, but because there is nothing you can do to merit salvation.

It is a work of God's grace. If it is of our works then it cannot be of grace.

If it is earned, it is not grace.

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If salvation was left to man it could be lost and would be because men is evil. However, thanks be to God that salvation si only of Him. He has saved us and will cause us to walk in the righteous path for His own glory.

Now while you do not keeep your salvation by the performance you make, the evidence of a true converted heart is adherence to God's laws.

 

[RightwingConspirator]

Puriteen? Why is it is a bad thing to believe in faith and obedience? That is not our works but our faith in action.

Anyone add any input here?

 

[sobresaliente]

That statement does not sound like a problem to me. I know many of us always love a little scripture thrown in too:

This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. Titus 3:8

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 2:14

These good works are nothing to merit salvation, but they are fruits of the spirit all christians should bear in their walk with their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

May all go well with you, God bless ,
Sobresaliente

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Former Baptist here

Baptists believe that works are a natural response to God's grace of salvation through our faith in Him . . . so yes, we should do our best to be perfect and act in perfect love toward God and God's creation. Our works are not to earn salvation but are rather our natural response to this saving grace.

 

[RightwingConspirator]

Lux, why aren't you Baptist anymore?

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Lux, why aren't you Baptist anymore?

Life got in the way. I moved to an area that doesn't have a Southern Baptist church (I was raised SBC) and there weren't any other American Baptist churches that I liked, so that was part of the reason. I also like to see what other Christians have to offer. I've attended all sorts of churches and I've loved differents aspects of all of them. I have no idea where I'll end up Everyone in my family is Baptist so I still have firm Baptist roots, but I do like to branch out.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Also wanted to add: I personally love liturgical worship, and Baptists are by nature non-liturgical. I just feel more spiritually-uplifted through liturgical worship, but that's just a personal thing because my hubby feels exactly the opposite. We're compromising at the moment in this regard.

 

[puriteen18]

Puriteen? Why is it is a bad thing to believe in faith and obedience? That is not our works but our faith in action.

Anyone add any input here?

Neither faith or obedience are bad, but we must remember both are just signs of God's grace on us. As I said, if we are truly saved we will be obedient, if we are not we will fall away from the people of God.

We must remember that our righteousness is as to fithly rags; that means the best we could ever do woudl no be eoungh to merit grace. Grace is a gift, not a payment for work done.

 

[puriteen18]

Also wanted to add: I personally love liturgical worship, and Baptists are by nature non-liturgical. I just feel more spiritually-uplifted through liturgical worship, but that's just a personal thing because my hubby feels exactly the opposite. We're compromising at the moment in this regard.

Just a side note:
Reformed Baptist have quite a beautiful liturgy.

 

[puriteen18]

Former Baptist here

Baptists believe that works are a natural response to God's grace of salvation through our faith in Him . . . so yes, we should do our best to be perfect and act in perfect love toward God and God's creation. Our works are not to earn salvation but are rather our natural response to this saving grace.

Their is a difference between the "four Baptist camps".

Liberal-Most people are probably okay, and don't need to worry about it.
Conservative- we want to do good works after salvation (or what you just said)
Free-Will Bapt- If we do not continue in good works we will fall from grace.
Reformed Bapt- If you do not continue in good works you never had grace.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

We are saved by Grace through faith, yes. However, good deeds are a visible sign of our Grace. If we have no good deeds whatsoever, I don't believe we have ever received the gift of Grace. Faith without works is dead. Good deeds and love are a by-product and visible indication of the Grace and Faith that is within us.

 

[Flynmonkie]

Puriteen? Why is it is a bad thing to believe in faith and obedience? That is not our works but our faith in action.

Anyone add any input here?

Its not, you are on the right track. If you were to say that works - something you do that will merit salvation, this would be not what I believe the Bible teaches.

However if you are saying works as a term for obediance or "walking in the light" or "With the Spirit".This is what all Christians should do, earnestly seek Christ in all aspects of our life. This is showing action (faith and works) on our part. A co-operative effort from us to God to find His way. I believe we, as Christians will be judged on how we "obey" (our works). This judgement will be different to me than the non-saved unbelievers and will have nothing to do with our forgiven sins. This also has nothing to do with actual salvation. It is free, there is nothing you can do to earn it.

 

[Jamie70]

Ask the reformationist. He usually has the answer!

 

[Ken]

Do you think that if we are saved by grace through faith, we must be obedient too? If I say that I believe that I am saved by grace through faith and repentance, is that offensive? Would your church welcome me or argue with me or accept a small difference in belief if there is. I don't believe I am saved through my "own" workings, but that my faith must be active. "responsible grace".

Yes, speaking as a Reformed Baptist, even though we are saved by grace, totally apart from works, not due to any foreseen works or any exercise of faith on our part, we must be obedient. As others have mentioned, however, our obedience is the result of our having been regenerated and thus we are able, for the first time, to do good works. As Luther said, we justified by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone. Works will inevitably follow true justification.

At any rate, as there is no need to reinvent the wheel, have a look at the following Baptist Confession, namely The London Confession of Baptist Faith of 1689,

Chapter XVI
Of Good Works

I. Good works are only such as God hath commanded in His Holy Word,[1] and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretence of good intentions.[2]
1. Micah 6:8; Heb. 13:21
2. Matt. 15:9; Isa. 29:13
II. These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith;[3] and by them believers manifest their thankfulness,[4] strengthen their assurance,[5] edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the gospel,[6] stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God,[7] whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto,[8]that having their fruit unto holiness they may have the end eternal life.[9]
3. James 2:18, 22
4. Psa. 116:12-13
5. I John 2:3, 5; II Peter 1:5-11
6. Matt. 5:16
7. I Tim. 6:1; I Peter 2:15; Phil. 1:11
8. Eph. 2:10
9. Rom. 6:22
III. Their ability to do good works is not all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ;[10] and that they maybe enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is necessary an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them to will and to do of His good pleasure;[11] yet they are not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty, unless upon a special motion of the Spirit, but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.[12]
10. John 15:4-5
11. II Cor. 3:5; Phil. 2:13
12. Phil. 2:12; Heb. 6:11-12; Isa. 64:7
IV. They who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do.[13]
13. Job 9:2-3; Gal. 5:17; Luke 17:10
V. We cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin or eternal life at the hand of God, by reason of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come, and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom by them we can neither profit nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins;[14] but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants; and because as they are good they proceed from His Spirit,[15] and as they are wrought by us they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God's punishment.[16]
14. Rom. 3:20; Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:6
15. Gal. 5:22-23
16. Isa. 64:6; Psa. 143:2
VI. Yet notwithstanding the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in Him;[17] not as though they were in this life wholly unblameable and unreprovable in God's sight, but that He, looking upon them in His Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.[18]
17. Eph. 1:6; I Peter 2:5
18. Matt. 25:21, 23; Heb. 6:10
VII. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and others;[19] yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith,[20] nor are done in a right manner according to the Word,[21]nor to a right end, the glory of God,[22] they are therefore sinful, and cannot please God, nor make a man meet to receive grace from God,[23] and yet their neglect of them is more sinful and displeasing to God.[24]
19. II Kings 10:30; I Kings 21:27, 29
20. Gen. 4:5; Heb. 11:4, 6
21. I Cor. 13:1
22. Matt. 6:2, 5
23. Amos 5:21-22; Rom. 9:16; Titus 3:5
24. Job 21:14-15; Matt. 25:41-43"

See http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/1689lbc/english/1689econtents.htm
for more on this.....

Unfortuantely there are some Baptists who believe in what is called "Easy Believism", and who teach that works are not necessary... for more on this I would suggest that you do a search on the phrase "The Lordship Controversy"...

blessings

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Also wanted to add: I personally love liturgical worship, and Baptists are by nature non-liturgical. I just feel more spiritually-uplifted through liturgical worship, but that's just a personal thing because my hubby feels exactly the opposite. We're compromising at the moment in this regard.

Try a PCA church. Strong, Baptist like beliefes with a typically solid liturgy.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

What does PCA stand for?

 

[puriteen18]

What does PCA stand for?

Presbyterian Church in America

not to be confused with Presbyterian Church (USA)