baptism

mama2one · Apr 25, 2018

DW1980 said:
Otherwise they wouldn't baptise you and your husband "again"?

don't know if husband and I will be allowed to, just assuming we could
we'll have to ask

recently watched Kevin sorbo in "let there be light" so that's why Baptism been on my mind

Ken Rank · Apr 25, 2018

Paidiske said:
The only thing above I'd seriously disagree with is the idea of baptising more than once.

Just curious, why? As we learn and grow and deepen our relation to God, you can't see somebody wanting to go back into the water and refocus on the outside the change and growth within? Christ himself didn't do one mikva (ceremonial bath... and baptism is a ceremonial act) he probably took dozens.

One thing is clear... and I think we agree on this. The person has to be to a point where they can understand what the significance and purpose of the baptism is. What is the point in doing it if we don't know what it is for? And at 10, the young lady might very well have an understanding, girls mature faster than young men do. But is she going to have the depth of understanding at 20 that she has now or will she have grown? Obviously and hopefully she will have grown. What if at that point it takes on a deeper meaning and she wants to rededicate her life, on an adult level, to God through Christ in baptism? Do we really take the position that she shouldn't?

mama2one · Apr 25, 2018

Ken Rank said:
Just curious, why?

sorry, got ahead of myself

Ken Rank · Apr 25, 2018

christine40 said:
as mentioned above, husband and I baptised as infants

but I was in college when accepted Christ personally and last night learned husband did when he was dating a girl whose dad was a pastor (don't know if he'd told me that before or I forgot)

I was asking Paidiske why she would be against your daughter doing it again later?

Again, everyone has their own opinions and views and I might be wrong. But if it were me, and you two got baptized as infants, and your 10 year old wanted to be baptized now... then, again, if it were me... I would take my wife and daughter to a river or lake and immerse myself and then immerse my family. It is the father of the home who is the spiritual head... God made it that way. And while I don't have any problem with a pastor doing it... in a real sense, a husband is the pastor of his home, or should be. Just a thought...

Be blessed.

S.O.J.I.A. · Apr 25, 2018

oh dear...

Paidiske · Apr 25, 2018

Ken Rank said:
Just curious, why? As we learn and grow and deepen our relation to God, you can't see somebody wanting to go back into the water and refocus on the outside the change and growth within? Christ himself didn't do one mikva (ceremonial bath... and baptism is a ceremonial act) he probably took dozens.

One thing is clear... and I think we agree on this. The person has to be to a point where they can understand what the significance and purpose of the baptism is. What is the point in doing it if we don't know what it is for? And at 10, the young lady might very well have an understanding, girls mature faster than young men do. But is she going to have the depth of understanding at 20 that she has now or will she have grown? Obviously and hopefully she will have grown. What if at that point it takes on a deeper meaning and she wants to rededicate her life, on an adult level, to God through Christ in baptism? Do we really take the position that she shouldn't?

Because to be baptised a second time suggests that God didn't "do it right" the first time. The primary agent in baptism isn't the person, it's God, who marks that person as Christ's own for ever. That can never be undone, and it can't be done again. It's once for ever.

Sure, you can re-affirm your baptismal promises, and that might well be good and appropriate at various points. But not go back into the water.

As a minister, I would refuse to re-baptise someone who had been validly baptised before. (I'd also totally reject the whole "husband is the pastor of his home" thing; but that would be getting us really off topic).

(And no, I don't agree that infant baptism is invalid, but I don't feel the need to debate that point here. The OP has been presented with both points of view, and will need to make her own mind up what she believes).

mama2one · Apr 25, 2018

so I'm totally confused now but need to take child to school so think on this later.........

Ken Rank · Apr 25, 2018

Paidiske said:
Because to be baptised a second time suggests that God didn't "do it right" the first time. The primary agent in baptism isn't the person, it's God, who marks that person as Christ's own for ever. That can never be undone, and it can't be done again. It's once for ever.

Sure, you can re-affirm your baptismal promises, and that might well be good and appropriate at various points. But not go back into the water.

As a minister, I would refuse to re-baptise someone who had been validly baptised before. (I'd also totally reject the whole "husband is the pastor of his home" thing; but that would be getting us really off topic).

(And no, I don't agree that infant baptism is invalid, but I don't feel the need to debate that point here. The OP has been presented with both points of view, and will need to make her own mind up what she believes).

I don't think this has anything to do with "God doing it right the first time." But... I have shared my view, you yours, and like you said... and as I have said 2-3 times, they have to make up their own minds and follow their own convictions.

Shalom.
Ken

PaulCyp1 · Apr 25, 2018

The original Christian Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years, allowing them to become full members of God's family just as they have become full members of a human family, reborn of water and the Spirit as our Lord and Savior instructed.

mama2one · Apr 25, 2018

Paidiske said:
Sure, you can re-affirm your baptismal promises, and that might well be good and appropriate at various points. But not go back into the water.

thought on this and agree

and I got my own thread off topic!
this is about our child and we can't go back in time and get her baptised as a baby

we should wait until the total understanding is there even though she said last year "I want to be a follower of Jesus"

Albion · Apr 25, 2018

christine40 said:
so I'm totally confused now but need to take child to school so think on this later.........

Your daughter is old enough that infant baptism is obviously not an option in her case, regardless of what your own church thinks about infant baptism. And we all know that a person old enough to understand and make a commitment to Christ as Lord and Savior is eligible for baptism.

The question was originally only which group she ought to be with on the occasion of her own baptism. She approaches this as an adult would, so that would seem to answer this concern.

In any case, the ceremony itself, the administration of the sacrament, and the scheduling, etc. is in the hands of the pastor, so speaking with him or her appears to be the next step.

I see now that the cause of your uncertainty is wondering whether she is really old enough to be comprehending sufficiently, but that is also something to take up with the pastor.

PaulCyp1 · Apr 25, 2018

The one Church Jesus Christ founded has baptized babies for 2,000 years. Not baptizing them is a modern tradition of men only a few hundred years old, and is found only in unauthorized manmade churches which have rejected many of the teachings and practices of original and complete Christianity. In the Bible there are repeated instances where "whole families" were baptized together. Since this was the common practice of the early Church, it goes without saying that many of these families included small children and babies. Also, Jesus taught that one cannot enter the kingdom without being reborn through water and the spirit, an obvious reference to baptism. Yet, when looking upon a group of small children and babes in arms, He said "to such as these belongs the kingdom of God". Therefore, unless He contradicted Himself, these children had been baptized - which one would expect since this was the common practice of the Christian Church from the beginning. The baptism of babies is well described in the writings of 2nd Century Fathers of the Church, who describe it as a tradition passed down from the apostles.

buzuxi02 · Apr 26, 2018

christine40 said:
thanks for your reply
this isn't about us parents, however

am unable to discern when our child is ready
if we were to ask her, she would say yes, just to please us if she thought that is what WE wanted

Why did you wait this long to begin with? And what in the world is this dedication thing at age 2? Why would you dedicate them (i imagine its some modern christian ceremony?) But why did you do even this dedication thing if you were never planning on raising the child christian?

Radagast · Apr 26, 2018

christine40 said:
sorry if this is a repeat; unable to do searches for some reason today

baby dedication at age 2 when we adopted her

she is now 10 and have been thinking about baptism lately
husband and I were both baptised as infants

should we should wait until our child expresses interest in being baptised with other adults?
or look into having her baptised with infants now?

If you are in a Baptist church, you must wait until she's old enough.

Otherwise, baptise her as soon as possible.

Radagast · Apr 26, 2018

buzuxi02 said:
And what in the world is this dedication thing at age 2? Why would you dedicate them if you were never planning on raising the child christian?

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of it, Baptists generally "dedicate" infants, and then baptise them when mature.

lastofall · Apr 26, 2018

Infant baptism is a tradition of men and has nothing to do with the Truth according to God: as for when, it should be when a person (as you said) shows interest, that is, when they are sincerely receptive to God, and not superficially; for lest we forget, it is written and spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ that "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Truly we may hope and pray for our child to receive the Lord, but it is still in the end according as every person purposes it in their heart, and not according to wishful thinking.

Radagast · Apr 26, 2018

lastofall said:
Infant baptism is a tradition of men

Well, no, there are Biblical grounds for it, and the Church has been doing it from the very beginning.

buzuxi02 · Apr 26, 2018

Radagast said:
Without getting into the rights and wrongs of it, Baptists generally "dedicate" infants, and then baptise them when mature.

And what exactly are they dedicating if they believe its in their offsprings free will after reaching age of reason and consent to choose?

Paidiske · Apr 26, 2018

Usually, it's a promise to raise your child in the faith, and seeking support from your church community in doing so.

It's not intrinsically bad to do, it's just for those of us who baptise infants, it's always going to look like the lesser option.

Andrew77 · Apr 26, 2018

christine40 said:
sorry if this is a repeat; unable to do searches for some reason today

baby dedication at age 2 when we adopted her

she is now 10 and have been thinking about baptism lately
husband and I were both baptised as infants

should we should wait until our child expresses interest in being baptised with other adults?
or look into having her baptised with infants now?

I don't see any place anywhere in the Bible, where infants are baptized.

Baptism is for people wanting to make their faith in Jesus Christ, public.

So by definition, the individual in question has to make the choice THEMSELVES, that they want to be a Christian.

Splashing water on someone, doesn't make them Christian, anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a BMW, or sitting in a barn makes you a cow.

Baptism should only be done when the person in question understands what being Christian is. That they are sinners. That they are flawed human beings. That they need a savor to save them from their own sins and flaws. And that they want Jesus as their Lord, and King of their life.

And when they reach that point, then they want to show this publicly in baptism.

Lastly, I would rather this child wait until they are 30 if that is what they want, rather than to fake it, pretend to be Christian, just so they can make their parents happy they got dunked in water.

It is better to have real honest people, than people who fake and pretend because their parents want them baptized. The goal you need to be seeking, is heart change. You want their Heart to be turned to the good, and away from the evil. Not their skin getting wet.

I'm saying this, because I had a lady friend that was baptized, but she was baptized because her parents demanded it from her. She end up screwing around, got into drugs, married a drug dealer, he started beating her, her life was a complete and total train wreck.

She became a real Christian in her 50s. She got baptized, this time for real, because her heart was real this time, in her late 50s.

The first time she got "baptized" meant nothing more than water being splashed on her.

However, because she did this fake thing, she thought she was good, and didn't change her life. That's why she had to get in her 50s, and into drugs and being beaten, before she figured out she need real change.

Don't push your child to do something that isn't real. Real heart change is the goal. Not splashing water.

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