Baptism without parental consent plus more

[Phil 1:21]

There is a reason why the first commandment is first.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would agree with those who said that this is a pastoral issue, I don't think that a broad, generalized statement can be made. It's something your friend needs to discuss with with the pastor/priest about, specifically one from the church he wishes to become part of.

An ideal situation, I think, would be if your friend's parents could meet with the member of the clergy. If the parents are that opposed to religion, however, that could be difficult.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GirdYourLoins]

I voted other as the batpism would be as valid as anyone else. However by going ahead with this I believe he would not be honouring his father and mother which is one of the ten commandments.

 

[jsimms615]

My friend Jake's parents do not want him to be baptized and it's literally killing him. He always complaing about it to me. I don't know why, but they are absolutely opposed to it and my friend is starting to grow impatient. Jake met a Pentecostal pastor who said he would baptize him. I don't think he told the pastor his parents don't want him to be baptized though. He told me it wouldn't be disobeying his parents because it is for his spiritual well being and he is just doing what his parents have failed to do, something about their spiritual responsibility? I guess I see where Jakeis coming from with that one, as his parents would never let him get baptized, probably until he's 18. But what i am concerned about is would the baptism be valid if his parents don't know?

As a bonus, he plans on joining the Catholics after he is baptized. Would they accept it as a true or valid baptism? If they would accept it as valid he would have to take classes where he learns about the Catholic faith though and Jake's parents would shut that down too lol.

Just my opinion, but I would think the pastor or preacher who baptized him would be irresponsible not to get permission from the parents first as he is a minor. I think it is disrespectful and ends up hurting the witness of the church leadership. If you can't respect the parents then he needs to wait. Isn't obey your father and mother a command. . .

 

[Paidiske]

My own baptism was delayed for some time due to problems with abusive parents, so I can relate to that.

My response now would be to work out how to deal with the abuse first, and then look at baptism afterwards, I think. But it would not be a decision to be made lightly, and it would need to be worked through in person very carefully.

 

[Anguspure]

My friend Jake's parents do not want him to be baptized and it's literally killing him. He always complaing about it to me. I don't know why, but they are absolutely opposed to it and my friend is starting to grow impatient. Jake met a Pentecostal pastor who said he would baptize him. I don't think he told the pastor his parents don't want him to be baptized though. He told me it wouldn't be disobeying his parents because it is for his spiritual well being and he is just doing what his parents have failed to do, something about their spiritual responsibility? I guess I see where Jakeis coming from with that one, as his parents would never let him get baptized, probably until he's 18. But what i am concerned about is would the baptism be valid if his parents don't know?

As a bonus, he plans on joining the Catholics after he is baptized. Would they accept it as a true or valid baptism? If they would accept it as valid he would have to take classes where he learns about the Catholic faith though and Jake's parents would shut that down too lol.

If he believes there is nothing to stop him being baptised immediately.

The thing is that for those who don't believe it is really no different from him deciding to go for a swim at the local river or swimming pool.

The act of baptism should take place, wherever possible, concurrent with the confession of Jesus as Lord and belief that God raised Him from the dead for the forgivness of sin. This is the sort of problem that we get when we dily daly around with what Christ has told us to do.

 

[Valetic]

The way I view baptism is that it is an outward showing of an inward work. When a person is born again, the old is washed away and they are made new. Baptism is a representation of this. You submerge as the old self and the water (representing the Spirit) washes you clean and you come out a new person (born again). Baptism is NOT the same thing as being dedicated. As far as parental consent is concerned, the bible only says to honor your mother and father. However I view baptism as a sacred event that actually shouldn't concern anyone other than the individual and their relationship with God. I would like to say it would be okay to do so in secret as well but I wouldn't take my word for it.

 

[DW1980]

It sounds to me like Jake is very keen! That's a good thing and this is complicated.

On the one hand, he is 15, he's a minor. On the other he has the right to freedom of belief and practice. So somehow, he and his parents need to try and find mutual respect for each others rights.

If that's difficult, then I would suggest he waits for baptism until he is an adult. If he intends to join the Catholic Church then I think he should wait to be baptised there. It seems odd to run to a Pentecostal pastor and (you suggest) not explain things fully - it's a bit deceptive on Jake's part. If even a part of him thinks that the pastor would say no if he or she knew, then that says a lot. Part of being a Christian means being accountable to a Church. If he's misleading a pastor to be baptised, it's not a great start!

I would suggest a slow down, try and build bridges with his parents, attend the Church he feels best suits his faith, study the Bible and build his relationship with God. If things work out and his parents consent to baptism, wonderful. If not, he only has a few years to wait. Be honest with his spiritual leaders (i.e. the pastor or priest), and follow their guidance and advice.

 

[hedrick]

Some churches are not taking the requirement of baptism so literally. He should talk to a priest and see whether he can take communion. The point of requiring baptism is that it does not make sense for a non Christian to take communion, and traditionally baptism defined being Christian. But he’s clearly Christian.

 

[hedrick]

His parents are just extremely over reacting to him wanting to be baptized and just yell. I heard it on the phone and it sounded like emotional abuse. I feel bad for him but do not know what to tell him. Jake's super devout and especially for his age it's amazing. His parents just break him down and it's hard on him. I told him to just do his best but I don't think it helps.

Is this reaction just to baptism, or are his parents treating him this way generally?

 

[salt-n-light]

My friend Jake's parents do not want him to be baptized and it's literally killing him. He always complaing about it to me. I don't know why, but they are absolutely opposed to it and my friend is starting to grow impatient. Jake met a Pentecostal pastor who said he would baptize him. I don't think he told the pastor his parents don't want him to be baptized though. He told me it wouldn't be disobeying his parents because it is for his spiritual well being and he is just doing what his parents have failed to do, something about their spiritual responsibility? I guess I see where Jakeis coming from with that one, as his parents would never let him get baptized, probably until he's 18. But what i am concerned about is would the baptism be valid if his parents don't know?

As a bonus, he plans on joining the Catholics after he is baptized. Would they accept it as a true or valid baptism? If they would accept it as valid he would have to take classes where he learns about the Catholic faith though and Jake's parents would shut that down too lol.

I commend his passion for Christ, but he could have handle it better. At least a “ I’m doing it and you can stop me” or a sit down, and not purposely hiding it.

 

[Albion]

The best advice probably is what so many others have emphasized--he should check with the pastors who would be involved.

But I have also to think that the advice offered by Anguspure and Valetic is not very helpful if the idea there is that Jake should adopt a belief concerning the sacrament of Baptism that is at odds with the theology of the church that he intends to join.

 

[DamianWarS]

My friend Jake's parents do not want him to be baptized and it's literally killing him. He always complaing about it to me. I don't know why, but they are absolutely opposed to it and my friend is starting to grow impatient. Jake met a Pentecostal pastor who said he would baptize him. I don't think he told the pastor his parents don't want him to be baptized though. He told me it wouldn't be disobeying his parents because it is for his spiritual well being and he is just doing what his parents have failed to do, something about their spiritual responsibility? I guess I see where Jakeis coming from with that one, as his parents would never let him get baptized, probably until he's 18. But what i am concerned about is would the baptism be valid if his parents don't know?

As a bonus, he plans on joining the Catholics after he is baptized. Would they accept it as a true or valid baptism? If they would accept it as valid he would have to take classes where he learns about the Catholic faith though and Jake's parents would shut that down too lol.

why doesn't he just get baptized at a Catholic church?

We should honour and respect our parents but not at the expense of the gospel. if he was really mature and intentional he would sit his parents down and tell them how much Christ's means to him and that he wishes to get baptized and would love if they could support this decision but if they won't support this he will respect them and wait until he is an adult or is no longer a dependant. This will get their their attention and they will (probably) respect him in turn for this. It also put's the ball in their court and often that's all they want, once they have it they may give him the ok. The Catholic church however may have some other thoughts about this and he should consult the church he plans on following to see what their advice is, certainly hiding it is not the right answer.

 

[Albion]

We should honour and respect our parents but not at the expense of the gospel. if he was really mature and intentional he would sit his parents down and tell them how much Christ's means to him and that he wishes to get baptized and would love if they could support this decision but if they won't support this he will respect them and wait until he is an adult or is no longer a dependant. This will get their their attention and they will (probably) respect him in turn for this.

Based on what we have been told, that's wishful thinking. And it also would also run the very big risk of producing a lot of anger and unpleasantness in the home. It seems clear that the reason Jake is contemplating such a roundabout approach as has been described to us is precisely because he knows that this scenario is out of the question.

 

[Valetic]

The best advice probably is what so many others have emphasized--he should check with the pastors who would be involved.

But I have also to think that the advice offered by Anguspure and Valetic is not very helpful if the idea there is that Jake should adopt a belief concerning the sacrament of Baptism that is at odds with the theology of the church that he intends to join.

I agree.. I haven't done a whole lot of research on the theology of it. I was raised JW and their baptism is a dedication and I had trouble agreeing with this as I feared falling short and being shunned by the very religion I would have dedicated myself to. It wasn't until I was born again that this changed for me theologically.

 

[DamianWarS]

Based on what we have been told, that's wishful thinking. And it also would also run the very big risk of producing a lot of anger and unpleasantness in the home. It seems clear that the reason Jake is contemplating such a roundabout approach as has been described to us is precisely because he knows that this scenario is out of the question.

But his parents would appreciate that he respects them enough not to do it while "under their roof"

 

[MournfulWatcher]

If it were me, I would get baptized and not tell my parents. I don't think they need to know and he doesn't need their permission to make this decision and take part in a major sacrament. He's old enough to decide. If the commands of your parents conflict with the commands of christ, jesus' commands come before your parents'.

 

[Radagast]

But his parents would appreciate that he respects them enough not to do it while "under their roof"

Obedience to God trumps obedience to parents. "Respect for parents" is not a reason to delay baptism.

 

[DamianWarS]

Obedience to God trumps obedience to parents. "Respect for parents" is not a reason to delay baptism.

does not God also say to honour your father and mother? It's a question of what shows the glory of God. Baptism is not a badge of honour or a "I can sit at the big kids table" milestone marker and if we turn it into that we have lost the point. We need to seek baptism for the right reasons, and it is to give glory to God. This person is a dependant and I can't speak to his maturity fully but what I do see is seeking baptism from a pentecostal pastor then seeking a Catholic church to attend and not telling anyone that his parent's disagree. This is not giving glory to God and his parents are probably going to see a product of rebellion and deception in this process. His profile says he's 18 years old so we are talking a couple of years before he is out on his own but he needs to be intention and tell his parents his plan and his desire to honour them while still living in their house.

 

[Desires Light]

My friend Jake's parents do not want him to be baptized and it's literally killing him. He always complaing about it to me. I don't know why, but they are absolutely opposed to it and my friend is starting to grow impatient. Jake met a Pentecostal pastor who said he would baptize him. I don't think he told the pastor his parents don't want him to be baptized though. He told me it wouldn't be disobeying his parents because it is for his spiritual well being and he is just doing what his parents have failed to do, something about their spiritual responsibility? I guess I see where Jakeis coming from with that one, as his parents would never let him get baptized, probably until he's 18. But what i am concerned about is would the baptism be valid if his parents don't know?

As a bonus, he plans on joining the Catholics after he is baptized. Would they accept it as a true or valid baptism? If they would accept it as valid he would have to take classes where he learns about the Catholic faith though and Jake's parents would shut that down too lol.

Nothing is valid without consent.