Baptism--Which way is the right way?

[Andre]

Thanks Andre - You are right, God has not finished with Israel and is prepraing them for His prupose for them to be fulfilled. But, I think if you look at Eze. 37 and other OT passages more closely you will see that miraculous event will happen at the end of the tribulation. That is not a picture or illustration of what will happen it will be a literal event where there will be a literal, physical resurrection of Isreal from graves and God will bring them into theh millineal kingdom - and by the way they will be believing Israel for God will put His word into them to fulfill Ezek. 31 and Heb. 8.

Finally, the Israel that went back to Palestine in 1948 may have been Israel but not the believing Israel that you will see at the end of the tribulation for this Israel (at the end of trib) will accept the Messiah they have rejected. The Israel of 1948 was still in rejection of Jesus being their Messiah.

One more thought - Israel appears to be a nation in the eyes of the world but not in God's eyes right now. During this church age they are still in rejection. The world says, "Yes, you are a nation." God says, "You are not my people right now but you will be after I finish with you at the end of the tribulation for my purpose and promises with you will be fulfilled." (Paraphrasing of course.)

Your thoughts! - Later and may God bless.

Yes, they are becoming Israel one step at a time, that's why I believe the bones have "flesh" right now, but they don't have skin yet, I believe the skin stage will be during the tribulation, and the breath (wich usually reffers to the Holy Spirit) will come when they acept the Messiah at His second coming.

God Bless!!

 

[AVBunyan]

Yes, they are becoming Israel one step at a time, that's why I believe the bones have "flesh" right now, but they don't have skin yet, I believe the skin stage will be during the tribulation, and the breath (wich usually reffers to the Holy Spirit) will come when they acept the Messiah at His second coming.

Interesting way of lookig at it - I still believe you are spiritualizing Ezek. 37 - makes good preaching though. We do both agree on the Holy Spirit at the second advent. I still maintain that the flesh will be put on at the end of the tribulation.

One final point - they will be made to accept their Messiah - as a nation they won't on their own. Just like us - left in our dead state we would not choose God but God moves on our hearts and then we are made alive by His Spirit and then can choose God (II Cor. 4:3-6).

May God bless

 

[SamIAm2]

I think the whole "you can't have faith when you're a child" thing is really that when you're, for example, two months old, you can't say "I want to do this and do that", so your parents make decisions for you. With faith, your parents can't say "You believe in God and that's that", but you have to make the decision to believe in God. Faith is believing in God, completely.
about the whole baptizing thing, when I was baptized it was only a year or two ago. Being baptized is a way of telling your friends that you're a Christian, and it's also a symbol... my youth leader explained it to me this way: Jesus was buried, then rose again. To be saved, in a sense, you have to "die"... in other words, give up everything to follow God... so when, being baptized, you go under the water, it's a representation of being buried, and then when you come back up, it symbolizes that Jesus rose from the dead, and you, being a Christian, have life because Jesus rose. I don't know if that makes much sense, I have a hard time explaining things, but hopefully it makes some sense.

 

[reformedfan]

Have you ever read Jay Adams, "the Meaning and Modes of Baptism"? That little booklet helped me out a ton.
Baptism is a sign of the covenant, it doesn't have the power to save. It's a means of grace, and that alone. When your parents had you baptized they were (I would hope) declaring their commitment to raise you under the terms of the covenant: teach you of your sin, and a need for a savior, the person & work of Christ, etc. Look how God used that in your life! Rebaptism is unnecessary for that reason. It's not a superstitious, mystical event. It's been done once, God saw & honored it, you're done.
As far as immersion vs. sprinkling, there is a lot of evidence for sprinkling, rather than immersion. For one thing, during the mass conversions/ baptisms of the early NT church, time would not allow for the complete immersion of hundreds of converts.
Most importantly, what would priests of the OT do with the blood of sacrifices? they'd sprinkle it on the ark, never immerse the ark in the blood. The only time God wanted people immersed was during the Genesis 9 flood. Read Is 52:15, in the chapters dealing w/ the "sin bearing Servant". Strong, (of Strong's concordance fame) was an immersionist that sought to expunge this from the Scriptural record, which is why although the Hebrew supports the same definition of the word we have today, he inserted "startle" for "sprinkle" in that attempt in his concordance & dictionary. He's a sinner, go figure.
in Christ
reformedfan

 

[sola fide]

Has anyone thought of the possibility that Ezekial 37 and the valley of dry bones is speaking of the new birth that believers receive.

Here are some parallels for you that I think will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Ezekial 36 and 37 were and are fulfilled in the cross work of Christ and in the present work of the Holy Spirit.

Please take the time to compare these passages.

Ezekial 36:26-27 - John ch. 3
Ezekial 37:24 - John 10:16
Ezekial 37:25 - Acts 2:39
Ezekial 37:25a, 26 - Hebrews 11:10, 13-16, 26, 12:22-23, 13:14
Ezekial 37:26b-27 - John 14:15
Ezekial 17:28 - Ephesians 2:12-22, especially v. 12, 21, 22

We have to interpret these O.T. prophesies in light of the N.T., not the other way around.
Read Romans 9. Israel does not necessarily mean natural Jews by birth. In many contexts it refers to all true believers of Christ, those who have been born again. Those who were spiritually dead, but have been raised to life through the work of the Spirit (Eph. 2:1). Sounds very similar to the valley of dry bones does it not?

By the way Ezekial 36:25 is a great O.T. reference pointing toward baptism by sprinkling or pouring. Think it over, I'm ready to engage, it's been a while.

Grace and peace.

 

[AVBunyan]

Being baptized is a way of telling your friends that you're a Christian, and it's also a symbol... my youth leader explained it to me this way: Jesus was buried, then rose again. ... it's a representation of being buried, and then when you come back up, it symbolizes that Jesus rose from the dead, and you, being a Christian, have life because Jesus rose. I don't know if that makes much sense, I have a hard time explaining things,

Don't worry Sam, it appears I have a hard time explaing things to. I enjoyed your post.

I don't have a problem with people saying baptism is a "symbol", etc. Where I've grown weary is that churches today have made this "symbol", an official doctrine. I've heard saints tell me that they were told it was a "first step of obedience" and that they had to be baptized, not to be saved but they "had" too and if they didn't they were out of God's will. This is wrong, putting saints under that kind of bondage. Nowhere does scripture tell us that we should be baptized in water as a "first step of obedience" or to "picture the death, burial and resurrection of Christ" or to show that we are a Christian.

Again, the only reason I bring this up is because many, especially Baptists (I can pick on them for I am one thank you) have made a doctrine out of, "Baptism doesn't save but you still have to be baptized!" Nonsense, saints are running around under conviction because they haven't been baptized the "right way" and thus feel they have disobeyed God. Pitiful!!!

The only bpatism that counts is the spiritual baptism of Col. 2. You got that by God when He saved your sorry hide. So, when people ask me if I've been baptized I say, "You bet!" and I go on. I don't even bother trying to explain - but here it is a forum so I bring it up but in real life it is just not worth trying to show the average saint certain spiritual truths today - espcially if it kicks a "sacred cow" or one of their "hallowed traditions"!

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;

May God bless

 

[SamIAm2]

Yeah, baptism definitely isn't a requirement. I mean, if not being baptized meant being "out of God's will", then a whole heck of a lot of people who got saved and then died shortly after would be in trouble. It's completely up to you to be baptized.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Interesting.
I once asked a UPC if baptism was a requirement for salvation. I asked:
"So, if a man believes in Christ and His work on the cross, has repented and sought forgiveness, has received the Holy Spirit....and gets hit by a car on the way to his baptism, is the man saved - will he go to heaven?"

I was told "that is up to God'

tsk tsk.

I for one have baptised my babies as a covenant promise. I believe in it and find there is biblical proof. However, I would not argue my days away with a Baptist friend who happens to see things differently than I - nor would I stake anyone's salvation on their baptism beliefs - even those who believe it to be a requirement. The dangerous thing about believing it as a necessity, however, is that it leads the unbaptised into fear of not being saved - and that is not so.

I believe - if you have been baptised as a baby - God was there and honored it so. You have grown up to love the Lord are saved and have a relationship with Him. This is what He longed for the day your parents had you baptised. What a wonderful covenant you have now established, and have taken part of. God is faithful.....Amen!

I see no reason for you to be re-baptised. However, if you feel you need to be to settle your heart - then feel free to do so. It is not necessary by any means - but I don't see any problem with it. If my children choose to be baptised again as an adult believer - I will say the same to them.

Blessing to you as you make your decision.

 

[Robert Bingham]

There are several types of baptisms performed and at different times of ones life. I as a Methodist was baptized as an infant using sprinkling. I am contemplating being rebaptized through full emersion. What are your thoughts on the different ways of baptism and is rebaptism necessary as an adult?

These are my thoughts in response to your questions:

Baptism is only received once. Providing that visible amounts of water were applied, you have been baptized and anything else is redundant. If you want to acknowledge the continuation of God's grace and reaffirm commitments made at Baptism, you can participate in additional ceremonies but these are not "reBaptisms". There is only one Baptism.

 

[cindylou]

There is only one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Being "reBaptised" is not necessary. This is a heresy taught by the AnaBaptist's about the time of the reformation that only adult's were capable of making the decision to follow Christ, and were then reBaptized. Many people are baptized as adults because they were never baptized as children. This is not the same. Many mainstream Protestant churches, as well as the Catholic church, have Confirmation, which is baptism of the Holy Spirit...when an adult is coming into a fuller knowledge of Christ and is ready to go out in the world, to simplify.