Baptism and babies

[buzuxi02]

The OT covenant was based on birth to Jewish parents, the NT covenant is based on faith in Christ. Infants can't do that.

The OT covenant was based on birth to Jewish parents, the NT covenant is based on faith in Christ. Infants can't do that.

Where did you get that from??? Children including infants are natural believers in Christ. Scripture makes this quite clear:
Mark 9:
42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.

Matthew 21:
15 But when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that He did, and the children crying out in the temple and saying, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant 16 and said to Him, “Do You hear what these are saying?”

And Jesus said to them, “Yes. Have you never read,
‘Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants, You have perfected praise’?”

 

[ArmyMatt]

The OT covenant was based on birth to Jewish parents, the NT covenant is based on faith in Christ. Infants can't do that.

that's not true on either point. Ruth entered the OT covenant despite not having Jewish parents (and she wasn't the only one).

and John the Baptist, while still in the womb, leapt in Elizabeth's womb when Christ approached in Mary's womb.

 

[East of Eden]

Acts 16:29-34

And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and brought them out and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family. Then he brought them up into his house, and set food before them; and he rejoiced with all his household that he had believed in God.​

My point exactly, they spoke the word of the Lord to him and all that were in his house, who then were baptized, the preaching would exclude infants.

 

[East of Eden]

that's not true on either point. Ruth entered the OT covenant despite not having Jewish parents (and she wasn't the only one).

Ruth was an adult who believed and entered the covenant, they weren't baptizing or dedicating gentile babies into the Jewish covenant. Of course God was concerned about the salvation of Gentile nations in the OT, see Ninevah and the Court of the Gentiles in the Temple.

 

[East of Eden]

Where did you get that from??? Children including infants are natural believers in Christ. Scripture makes this quite clear:
Mark 9:
42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.

"The full phrase is, “one of these little ones” and Jesus uses this several times. [Although the “these” does not always have an antecedent (Luke 17:2)]. In line with its use in Zechariah 13:7, where “little ones” refers to God’s people, Jesus uses this as a way of talking about his disciples. (And Jesus alludes to this verse in Mark 14:27, making the 12 the “little ones.”)

Jesus calls his disciples children in other places (Mark 10:24, Matthew 11:25) and this is another, similar way a referring to them.

As we see in our verse, these “little ones” are people “who believe in” Jesus. Again, he is talking about disciples."

Wm. Higgins

 

[buzuxi02]

My point exactly, they spoke the word of the Lord to him and all that were in his house, who then were baptized,

This is an odd interpretation. Scripture says that infants were included. It makes it as clear as day:

1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
.

Galatians expanding on the above:

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.4 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is an infant, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father...

 

[prodromos]

My point exactly, they spoke the word of the Lord to him and all that were in his house, who then were baptized, the preaching would exclude infants.

But the baptism wouldn't, which is in opposition to your point.

 

[East of Eden]

This is an odd interpretation. Scripture says that infants were included. It makes it as clear as day:

1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
.

Galatians expanding on the above:

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.4 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is an infant, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father...

What translation is that? These all in 4:1 refer to a child, or underage heir:

What does Galatians 4:1 mean?

 

[East of Eden]

But the baptism wouldn't, which is in opposition to your point.

It doesn't say there were infants. I don't have infants in my house, do you?

 

[prodromos]

It doesn't say there were infants.

It doesn't need to.

I don't have infants in my house, do you?

Millions of people do have infants in their house.

 

[buzuxi02]

Jesus calls his disciples children in other places (Mark 10:24, Matthew 11:25) and this is another

What translation is that? These all in 4:1 refer to a child, or underage heir:

What does Galatians 4:1 mean?

It's what the original koine Greek says not the (intentionally) mistranslated English versions:
4 λεγω δε εφ οσον χρονον ο κληρονομος νηπιος εστιν ουδεν διαφερει δουλου κυριος παντων ων.

Nepios means baby or infant, the word teknon means child.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ruth was an adult who believed and entered the covenant, they weren't baptizing or dedicating gentile babies into the Jewish covenant. Of course God was concerned about the salvation of Gentile nations in the OT, see Ninevah and the Court of the Gentiles in the Temple.

right, so your point about the OT Covenant by being birthed to Jewish parents was incorrect

 

[East of Eden]

It doesn't need to.

Not if your mind is made up, I suppose.

Millions of people do have infants in their house.

And many more millions don't. There are 122,000,000 US households, only 8,000,000 have children under age 3.

 

[East of Eden]

right, so your point about the OT Covenant by being birthed to Jewish parents was incorrect

Or your point that the covenant is not by faith is.

 

[East of Eden]

It's what the original koine Greek says not the (intentionally) mistranslated English versions:
4 λεγω δε εφ οσον χρονον ο κληρονομος νηπιος εστιν ουδεν διαφερει δουλου κυριος παντων ων.

Nepios means baby or infant, the word teknon means child.

From another commentary:

"As long as he is a child - Until he arrives at the age. The word rendered "child" (νήπιοι nēpioi) properly means an infant; literally, "one not speaking" (νη nē insep. un, ἔπος epos), and hence, a child or babe, but without any definite limitation - Robinson. It is used as the word "infant" is with us in law, to denote "a minor." In human affairs the condition of a minor is antecedent to the enjoyment of the liberty and the civil rights which accrue to him on coming of age. He is a son and an heir, but during minority his position is that of a slave."

 

[prodromos]

Not if your mind is made up, I suppose.

Oh the irony

And many more millions don't. There are 122,000,000 US households, only 8,000,000 have children under age 3.

So your dictionary defines "households" as families without infant children? What word do you use to define families with infant children?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Or your point that the covenant is not by faith is.

I never said the covenant isn't by Faith, so that wasn't a point I made.

 

[East of Eden]

So your dictionary defines "households" as families without infant children? What word do you use to define families with infant children?

Both are households, but in the US anyway, ones with infants under 3 are only a little over 6% of the total. A more accurate assumption is there are not infants in the average household.

 

[East of Eden]

From another commentary:

"As long as he is a child - Until he arrives at the age. The word rendered "child" (νήπιοι nēpioi) properly means an infant; literally, "one not speaking" (νη nē insep. un, ἔπος epos), and hence, a child or babe, but without any definite limitation - Robinson. It is used as the word "infant" is with us in law, to denote "a minor." In human affairs the condition of a minor is antecedent to the enjoyment of the liberty and the civil rights which accrue to him on coming of age. He is a son and an heir, but during minority his position is that of a slave."

If I can elaborate on this, 'infant' doesn't mean baby necessarily, it means minor, just as the word 'spinster' does not mean an old lady as is commonly perceived, just an unmarried one.

 

[prodromos]

If I can elaborate on this, 'infant' doesn't mean baby necessarily, it means minor, just as the word 'spinster' does not mean an old lady as is commonly perceived, just an unmarried one.

No, the Greek word for infant does not mean "minor".