Baptism and babies

Not David

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So I will be hanging out with a friend (who used to be my Bible School Teacher) and I remember the last time he asked me about how baptism makes sense with infants if they do not have Original Sin in the Catholic sense.

What should I respond next time I see him?
 

GodsGrace101

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So I will be hanging out with a friend (who used to be my Bible School Teacher) and I remember the last time he asked me about how baptism makes sense with infants if they do not have Original Sin in the Catholic sense.

What should I respond next time I see him?
The early church did not believe in Original Sin the way that Augustine did and it was HE that made a doctrine that caused infants to have to become baptized because the church at HIS time accepted his teaching.

Infants were baptized even in the early church, and by this I mean from the time Jesus died to about 325AD when things started to change.

The early fathers (theologians) believed that infants should not be denied the blessing from God. They wanted this to be a sign that the infant would be raised in a Christian home -- remember that Christians back then were dying for their faith,,they weren't like the Christians of today....they were firm in their belief and lived it, so chances were that the children would grow up Christian too.

If you're really interested, google The Early Church Fathers and Baptism.

Also, this might be interesting for you:
David Bercou is an expert in Early Christianity....


 
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Swan7

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Jesus Christ is the Living Water and the Living Word, therefore He is the One baptism needed for repentance into Salvation.

Water, from the earth, does not save anyone. It is only symbolic. Christ did not ever need to be baptized because he never sinned, but He had John baptize Him because it was necessary: Matthew 3:14-15 Jesus Christ knew where He was going. :yellowheart:
 
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Phronema

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So I will be hanging out with a friend (who used to be my Bible School Teacher) and I remember the last time he asked me about how baptism makes sense with infants if they do not have Original Sin in the Catholic sense.

What should I respond next time I see him?

I was taught that it's because we've inherited the consequences of Ancestral Sin from Adam and Eve through birth, and baptism washes it away.

So to be clear we're not guilty for what they did, but we suffer the consequences.
 
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dzheremi

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As we pray in the Coptic version of the liturgy of St. Basil, "For no one is pure, if his life be but a day." We are born into a fallen world, even though we do not enter it guilty of anything.

There are also other reasons to baptize infants that don't really have to do with ancestral/original sin, such as the fact that this is the normative method of entering the Church community. Christ does say that unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood, we have no life in us, and so it would be a deprivation of life to not baptize them, since of course communion is restricted to baptized believers only.

This is one thing I absolutely don't get about some western Christians (and even non-Christians like Mormons, who I've learned fairly recently have a big hang-up on baptizing babies...kinda weird when you consider that they think of baptism as being so essential that they regularly 'baptize' dead people :(); it seems to make the infant and the child into something less than full-fledged members of the Church. They're either in or they're not, right? It's very odd.
 
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Lukaris

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If I recall correctly, I believe I heard that an understanding of Romans 6 is that baptism is first a bodily matter so that sin might be destroyed so that we do not serve sin as we live ( Romans 6:6). This also pertains to the Lord’s resurrection & our future resurrection ( Romans 6:5 ).

I should also consider Romans 6:4-6 also for context.
 
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Not David

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I was taught that it's because we've inherited the consequences of Ancestral Sin from Adam and Eve through birth, and baptism washes it away.

So to be clear we're not guilty for what they did, but we suffer the consequences.
Baptism washes the consequences? What does that mean?
 
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Not David

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As we pray in the Coptic version of the liturgy of St. Basil, "For no one is pure, if his life be but a day." We are born into a fallen world, even though we do not enter it guilty of anything.

There are also other reasons to baptize infants that don't really have to do with ancestral/original sin, such as the fact that this is the normative method of entering the Church community. Christ does say that unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood, we have no life in us, and so it would be a deprivation of life to not baptize them, since of course communion is restricted to baptized believers only.

This is one thing I absolutely don't get about some western Christians (and even non-Christians like Mormons, who I've learned fairly recently have a big hang-up on baptizing babies...kinda weird when you consider that they think of baptism as being so essential that they regularly 'baptize' dead people :(); it seems to make the infant and the child into something less than full-fledged members of the Church. They're either in or they're not, right? It's very odd.
I told him that it allows them to enter the Church but he knows baptism is also for the forgiveness of sins so he was curious how does regeneration work.
 
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So I will be hanging out with a friend (who used to be my Bible School Teacher) and I remember the last time he asked me about how baptism makes sense with infants if they do not have Original Sin in the Catholic sense.

What should I respond next time I see him?
Baptism is commanded by Christ to be used by His Church as the sacred rite that marks one's entrance into the newness of Life in Him. One cannot be born again unless one dies to the world of sin in order to be fed Life (God's grace). Baptism metaphorically, and really, communicates this blessed mode of existence (i.e. being in Communion with God through the dying to the world of self-love and sinful passion and being made alive by the Grace of God). We are baptized into His death, and become fully alive with His Life.

Many poorly catechized children fail to enter into the Life of the Church. This is on account of our weaknesses and sins as fathers, mothers, and pastors.
 
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Lukaris

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Fr Lawrence Farley summarizes Romans 6:3-5, “ For this sacramental union with Him in all that He has accomplished for our salvation. Thus we share in His death, His burial, His Resurrection, His Ascension. We share His sitting on the right hand of God and His heavenly glory (see Ephesians 2:6). All that He has done & experienced is for us, and He shares this sacramentally with us through baptism.”

Fr Lawrence goes further in depth on this re how we are “co-buried & become “planted together” with the likeness of the Lord ( Romans 6:4-5).

The next paragraph was my original post but I went further back in Fr Lawrence’s book.


We share the full experience of the Lord’s Incarnation, death, & resurrection in baptism. Fr. Lawrence Farley writes in his book: Romans: A Gospel for All, beginning from Romans 6:11-23, “Having reminded us that we have been set free from sin through our baptismal union with Christ, the apostle continues to exhort us to live in that blood-bought freedom. As Christ now “lives to God” so should we ( Romans 6:11) which means we must not let sin reign in us. St. Paul refers to our mortal body as the arena of testing to show how weak & prone to sin all are. We have not yet entered upon the triumph and immortality of the final resurrection, but still groan in this “ body of humiliation” ( Philippians 3:21).”

https://www.amazon.com/Epistle-Romans-Gospel-Orthodox-Companion/dp/1888212519
 
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ArmyMatt

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But even after you get baptized, you get all of those effects.

yes, but you're not enslaved to them. corruption and death now, because of Christ, doesn't end at death but is a passage to life.
 
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