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Backsliding

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by aforchrist33, Mar 17, 2002.

  1. Fallen from Grace

  2. Not measuring up

  3. Turning from God

  4. For Israel

  5. Not sure

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  1. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Nick_Loves_Abba

    Nick_Loves_Abba Bulls On Parade

    +45
    Christian
    I think backsliding can ONLY be done by Christians. Backsliding, from what I understand, means walking away from GOD for a moment.

    It's when you turn blind to God's convictions, and forget about religion. For me when I did it, about 1 month ago I confess, I didn't do it on purpose. It started with the devil tempting, and tempting me over and over, and me giving in each time. It was an unpleasant time. But no I don't believe it mean's falling away either.

    Guess what? GOD in his mercy and love, lasso'ed my with a 50ft rope, and brought me closer to him. Despite my rebellion. I confessed to him, I told him I was sorry, and asked forgiveness. He forgave me! Washed me clean. I than began getting thirsy for his word more than ever!

    God works in AWESOME ways. I think it's true what Jesus said, when he said He's never forsake us. Never leave us. And he didn't leave me, despite me trying to leave him. We don't desrve those GOOD things God gives us. Many times we don't. Jesus said himself, if a sheep leaves the heard, he's gonna leave the heard just to go bring the escaping sheep back to the pack. Is that true or what!

    God Bless
     
  3. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Dear NickLovesAbba;

    You felt backsliding was "Walking away from God for a moment"

    Not so the term "Backsliding" was refered to The Nation Of Israel. (Jeremiah 3:6,8,14) who are to return futureistically (Romans 11:25-27)

    As for your weakness of the flesh, Paul often felt as you and I do but never considered himself backsliden but rather blamed his flesh. read (Romans 7:15,17,18,19,20,25)

    Thank's for your awsom testimony brother, it really blessed me this late at night after this tiresom battle with those who refuse truth by rightly dividing. (2 Timothy 2:15) Remember we are sealed with the holy Spirit until we go to heaven! (Ephesians 1:13 /4:30)

    Keep searching for truth, and don't believe anyone who doesn't "Rightly divide" Please visit our webpage by going to my profile. God bless!
     
  4. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

    504
    +0
    I suppose "backsliding" can mean different things to different people. I don't recall it being in Scripture , But I have done a study if the Biblical term "defilement", which means "to pollute", or dirty up something which was once clean. Check it out. Jesus speaks about defilement, but it is something we choose.
     
  5. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Dear Debbie;

    You said you "Supposed, didn't recal, if, or, and then asked me to "check it out "

    Would you please explain what you are trying to say. Thanks!
     
  6. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

    504
    +0
    aforechrist, backsliding isnt in the bible so it doesnt matter what anyone thinks, from a Christian viewpoint, because it means many different things to many different people.
    If you mean, "can a person lose their salvation?' THen I say yes. Check out "defilement" for reference on the subject.
     
  7. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Dear Debbie;

    1. Why would you say "Backsliding isn't in the bible" when there are so many usage of the word?

    2. I have already "checked out defilement" and am happy to report that Jesus died for that sin also "Once" with His blood because He knew I would never make it to heaven on my own merits. And to make sure I would'nt be left behind He sealed me with His holy Spirit as a guarentee. Ephesians 1:13 /4:30 How about you, are you serving a God who put you on probation as a token of his love?
     
  8. GreenEyedLady

    GreenEyedLady My little Dinky Doo

    +164
    Baptist
    Jeremiah 3:6  ¶The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
    Jeremiah 3:8  And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
    Jeremiah 3:11  And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

    Jeremiah 2:19  Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
    Jeremiah 3:22  Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.
    Jeremiah 5:6  Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.

    It may not be in all bibles....BUT backsliding is in the TRUE Word of GOd...the KJV!
    GEL
     
  9. psalms 22.3

    psalms 22.3 Member

    282
    +0
    im not sure what the HEBREW OR GREEK TRANSLATION OF THE WORD IS EXACTLY. dont really care to look it up right now.

    people have used the term BACKSLIDING for many diffrent things, and i think thats reasonable.
    backsliding= sliding away from god, yall agree?

    the term may only be used in the old testament, for the isrealites (i dont really know if it is or not, but im thinking thats what aforchrist33 is saying)
    but that doesnt mean that meaning of the word is applicable to new testiment believers.

    i will never believe once saved always saved, i never have and i truely dont see the slightest bit of scripture to even hint that at that!
    the holyspirit SEALING you unto the day of redemption simply means he TESTIFIES for you.
    THE FACT THAT HE IS IN YOUR LIFE, MAKES YOU SAVED. thats what that means.

    IT DOES NOT MEAN HE SETS YOUR SALVATION IN STONE AND YOU CANT TURN AWAY, and your just heavon bound. the isrealites had the ability to vex the holyspirit, so do we. disobeying him (AS EVERYONE CAN DO, SAVED OR UNSAVED) hurts him and pushes him away, and can push him out of your life forever if you choose it.

    adam had the ability to turn away, the isrealites had the ability to turn away, angles have the ability to turn away.
    there will never be a people who cannot turn away.

    sin again, and your in danger again. dwell in sin long enough and you certainly can give up the gift that you had once received.

    sin is not forgiven before it is commited, the sacrifice was provided and it is ready before you sin, but your future sins are not covered now. if that was so, then all on earth would have been saved when jesus died.

    hebrews 10.25-30
    is far to clear in stating that YOU CAN RETURN FROM SALVATION TO A PLACE OF FEARING HELL, BECAUSE YOUR FORSAKEN JESUS, AND YOU DID THIS EVEN DESPITE GRACE THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED YOU TO RETURN.
    i am totally dumbfounded at how someone who wasnt brought up under the teaching of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, and is well read, would ever believe that salvation isnt able to be lost.
     
  10. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Dear GreenEyedLady;

    Thank you so much for verifying God's word. I pray many will through away their religious self righteous masks, and pray for the real backsliders of Isreal to return to God by accepting His Son.

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, (until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in). Romans 11:25

    For this is my covenant (unto them), when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:27

    Keep on "Rightly dividing" and shame the devil. (the confuser) God bless!
     
  11. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

    504
    +0
    Thanks for pointing out backsliding was indeed in the Bible. Glad to have learned something today.
    FYI aforechrist, I am saved & born again. Yes I serve God. Thank you for asking.
    AS for defilement, the unrepentant defiled do not enter heaven.
    Guess you answered your own question on backsliding?
     
  12. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Dear Debbie;

    Your welcome, glad to help. as for "defilement" please give me a spicific scripture preferdably one at a time and i'll be happy to discus the issue. God bless!
     
  13. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Dear Psalms22.3;

    Welcome to our ministry!

    Strangely you said,

    1. "Don't really care to look it up right now" "Yall agree?" "I don't really know if it is or not" "I'm thinking that's what aforchrist33 is saying" and them make an absalute positive statement like "I will never believe once saved always saved"

    Are you aware Jesus died because He knew you might not make it on your own merit? And all you can tell Him is I don't believe you. "I'll never believe once saved always saved"

    2. "Sealing means testifies for you"

    Not true! Sealing means to preserve, not speak out.

    3. "It does not mean he sets your salvation in stone"

    It shure doesn't mean our salvation is contained in a leaking baggie!

    4. As for "The Israelites"

    They were under a conditional covenant (Genesis 17:1-10 Exodus 24:7 /32:33) as apposed to us. (Romans 3:20,25)

    5. "Adam had the ability to turn away"

    Can you give me a scripture saying Adam was under a covenant relationship and backsliden?

    6. "Dwell in sin" and "you can give up the gift"

    How can you give up a gift you never earned in the first place? (Romans 6:23)

    "Your future sins are not covered now"

    Not true! Jesus forgave "ALL SINS ONCE" (Colossians 2:13 Romans 6:10) that includes future or He would have to shed blood again for only blood can forgive. (Hebrews 9:22)

    8. "Then all on earth would have been saved when Jesus died"

    Everyone was forgiven, but not everyone excepted the payment. (2 Corinthians 5:19)

    Again "Hebrews 10:25-30" was written to Israel under a covenant relationship as apposed to us. (Hebrews 4:1 /6:4-6
     
  14. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

    504
    +0
    AforeCHrist33, You said you already studied defilement in an earlier post on this thread ,(and that God"forgave that sin too) , now you ask for scripture verses in order to discuss it.
    Defilement is not one particular sin, it is a matter of the heart, going from clean to unclean.
     
  15. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>Do you believe a saved Christian can "Backslide"?

    The Bible says that those who endure to the end will be saved. If someone is backsliden, then they need to repent and get right with God. If they were to die in their backsliden condition, they would perish.

    The Bible says today is the day and now is the time of Salvation. Today is the day that God is wanting to do a work of salvation in my life. I do not count on the work God did yesterday, I trust in the work He is doing today, and the work He daily continues to do in my life.

    The only way we can be saved, is for God to finish the work He began in our lives. Thanks, JohnR7

    Matthew 10:22 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

    2 Cor. 6:2
    For He says:

    "In an acceptable time I have heard you,
    And in the day of salvation I have helped you."

    Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
     
  16. jrmorganjr

    jrmorganjr Paladin

    310
    +0
    Methodist
    US-Republican
    So, today I am covered in Christ's blood and righteous, but tomorrow I backslide (which I think of as knowingly sinning rather than walking in victory where once you walked in victory), even though I still trust Christ as Savior, and now his blood isn't applied?

    Today I die saved, tomorrow I die a sinning believer?

    God has to redo his saving work at each moment, but can walk away from someone he once performed saving work on? Why would he do that? That seems to me to be "slipping out of God's grasp", which Christ said could not happen.

    If I'm saved today, but not tomorrow, what a burden! What happens when I sleep? What happens if someone slips me drugs and I die in that state, having done something horrible?

    Just to many unjust situations and contradictions to this daily re-saved idea.
     
  17. aforchrist33

    aforchrist33 Member

    261
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Dear Jrmorganjr;

    Amen! well put. Iagree 100%
     
  18. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    1 Peter 4:18
    Now

    "If the righteous one is scarcely saved,
    Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"
     
  19. Romans828

    Romans828 New Member

    50
    +0
    This is one of the most UNSCRIPTURAL posts...

    First, how narrow-minded to say "I don't believe in once saved always saved and I never will" I pray that when you are confronted with truth, and scripture, you would open up your heart to hear the Lord.

    I won't even attempt to show you scripture...it would be a waste of time!!!

    Further, I would LOVE to know where you got this from
    "sin is not forgiven before it is commited, the sacrifice was provided and it is ready before you sin, but your future sins are not covered now. if that was so, then all on earth would have been saved when jesus died."

    Are we even READING THE SAME BIBLE?
     
  20. psalms 22.3

    psalms 22.3 Member

    282
    +0
    well,
    haha, its beat up in psalms 22.3 day!
    naaa, im use to this, its all cool.

    ok,
    aforchrist
    1.him dying to save me (becuase i could not save myself), does not imply that i can not turn away by my own choice. good theory, but it isnt backed by the bible or any scripture that i know of, not really, though many people take scriptures and say they mean things they could not mean logically.
    though i am aware of everything he did to save me, and my own hopelessness in saving myself.

    2. SEALED=SPHRAGIZO
    TO STAMP (testify, see what im saying?)
    (WITH A SIGNET OR PRIVATE MARK)
    FOR SECURITY OR PRESERVATION (i see what your saying)

    yes it does preserve you, yes it is securing you. having the holyspirit in your life means you are saved, and as long as you have him YOUR SECURE AND SAFE, PRESERVED.
    BUT THIS DOESNT GIVE THE SLIGHTEST IMPLICATION THAT YOU CANNOT TURN AWAY FROM HIM, THE VERY THING THAT IS SAVING YOU, YOU CAN TURN AWAY FROM HIM.
    as long as we are free will agents we will be able to choose any path we want, if one chooses to return to his old sins and leave the holyspirit, god gives us the choice to do that.

    3.
    no its no leaky bag.
    salvation isnt something easily lost, and really NO ONE EVER "LOST" SALVATION. because of his endless mercy and love, he doesnt really care what you do, hell always love you and allow you to be forgiven.
    BUT YES SALVAION CAN BE TURNED AWAY, THROWN AWAY.
    just as it is our choice to recieve salvtion, it is our choice to remain in salvation.
    no one will ever be able to say I LOST SALVATION AND SIMPLY COULDNT COME BACK.
    if you lose it, as in, YOU NO LONGER HAVE IT. ITS BECUASE YOU PURPOSELY THREW IT AWAY, AND REFUSED TO ALLOW HIM TO FORGIVE YOU.

    4. salvation is just as conditional today is it is then.
    HIS LOVE IS NOT CONDITIONAL. hell always love you.
    CERTAINLY YOU HAD TO DO SOMETHING TO GET SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE, CONFESS AND BELIEVE. isnt that a condition? it certainly is.
    no WE ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR WORKS.
    but our TRUST IN HIM.
    why dont you think someone can stop trusting in him?
    saved people can STOP TRUSTING in him, they can even TROD HIM UNDER FOOT, they can turn away, they can do anything they want.
    IF WE CONTINUE TO TRUST IN HIM, THEN NO, THERE IS NO WORRY. but is all up to us.

    5.well anyone can see that adam went from a place of fellowhsip and right standing with god, TO A PLACE OF BANISHMENT FROM HIS GOD GIVEN GIFTS. he did fall away from right standing with god, he did SIN. what he did brought all pain, sin, ungodliness upon the earth. how much clearer A picture OF LEAVING GOD can you find?

    6. ok, CHRISTMAS it ay my house this year, you come, bring me a gift, YOU BOUGHT IT, I DIDNT EARN IT. but i take your gift, THROW IT DOWN AND STOMP IT. i didnt earn the gift by my own works, but i can refuse it, and i can throw it away.
    me not earning gods gift, does not mean i cant cant throw it away. ITS TO PLAIN TO NOT SEE.

    7. why do you think those 2 scriptures mean all sin was forgiven at one time? i dont see it man.
    yes, he died once. and yes those who are dead to sin are forgiven all of all they ever did.
    but this doesnt imply that you cannot sin again, or that your future sins are covered.
    "for if we sin (again), after we have recieved the knowlegde of the truth, there REMAINETH NO SACRIFICE FOR SIN"
    hebrews 10.26.
    if you sin again, that sin needs to be forgiven, apart from the ones he has already forgiven.
    no he wouldnt have to die again, the forgiveness is there, but yes youd have to partake of it again.

    8. right, some havent accepted. i can choose to not accept it anylonger today, and lose it, if i want to.

    9.uhhhhh
    written to isreal?
    so, part of that book is to isreal, and part is to us?
    there are no hebrew or greek or gentile in the sight of god anymore. he doesnt send out diffrent covenants to diffrent peoples. that entire book was written to everyone.
    uhhh,
    how can statments about THE BLOOD, GRACE, SON OF GOD, (which are in that passage)be to isreal? your saying that was in the context of old covenant, but those words simply dont fit the old covenant.
    if it was written to people who are under a diffrent covenant that JESUS' BLOOD AND GRACE, then he wouldnt have used those words anyway.
    it was written to NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVERS, those words dont apply to ANYONE ELSE.
    these people were even SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD.
    that didnt happen in the old testiment. sin was not removed, only rolled over and looked over, untill the new testament.
    i dont see how this passage could possibly be to ONLY ISREAL. god doesnt see us as diffrent anyway.
    anyone who remains under that OLD covenant does it by choice DISOBEYING THE WILL OF GOD, AS DID THE PHARISEES.
     
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