Avoiding the Mark of the beast

[Timtofly]

I'd imagine it is like the mark of cain.

in terms of fearing getting the mark by getting your nails done you know, just by accident - or getting a tattoo on your forehead by accident when getting a haircut - it's not like that.

It's a mark made where someone becomes allegiant to a nation (or a world government) just so they can buy and sell. So you may be approached, you need this in order to buy houses, food or anything - it is a crystalization of mammon. It answers the question of Jesus, at what price would a man sell his soul?

It is not allegiance to a man. It is allegiance to the Adversary. But it is not Satan's mark. It is associated with the human Satan kept trying to get to disobey God.

 

[Major1]

When the Last Saints are "changed" in the "twinkling of an eye" at the last Trump
and the resurrection occurs and Satan and DEATH are destroyed [1Co 15]
what makes you think the world continues?

.

The Rapture and the 2nd Resurrection which is for the unsaved at the GWT Judgment are 1007 years apart.

Satan and death are NOT destroyed my friend.

Revelation 20:10...……..
" and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Revelation 20:14...…......
"Then DEATH and HELL were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."

"Second Death" is a technical word that means "eternal punishment" in the LOF for the unsaved.

Then in Revelation we see that there is a New Heaven and Earth...…….21:1.
"Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea".

 

[Major1]

I'd imagine it is like the mark of cain.

in terms of fearing getting the mark by getting your nails done you know, just by accident - or getting a tattoo on your forehead by accident when getting a haircut - it's not like that.

It's a mark made where someone becomes allegiant to a nation (or a world government) just so they can buy and sell. So you may be approached, you need this in order to buy houses, food or anything - it is a crystalization of mammon. It answers the question of Jesus, at what price would a man sell his soul?

That makes perfect logical and Scriptural sense.

 

[Major1]

No, that is the "time-of-the-end" also called the "Season and Time" on earth
AFTER the Fourth Beast or Revelation Beast is destroyed [Dan 7:11-12 and Rev 19:20]
The "knowledge that is increased" is the fact that GOD PROMISED the Truth about Daniel's
prophecies remain "closed-up" and "sealed" to all Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand"
during that "Season and Time" and JESUS PROMISED the Last Saints "shall see ALL these things"
(meaning the fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies) in Matthew 24:15 and 24:33...
and the BIBLE PROMISED these same Last Saints shall "prophesy again" about
these "mysteries" as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]

.

I respectfully disagree with your opinions.

 

[Major1]

Or the anytime rapture view, should the rapture come after the 70th week begins... but before the mark is created.

IMO, the Rapture will be the start of the 70th Week of Daniel.

The rapture occurs unexpectedly prior to the tribulation period.
That is the message of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 we are told that Jesus will descend from heaven and the dead Christians will rise up first. Then those Christians who are alive when Christ comes in the air will rise next and both groups will go up together.

Now it is important to remember that when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians, there were no chapter divisions and no verses. That means 1 Thessalonians 5:1 does not start a new subject because it starts a new chapter. It is a continuation of Paul’s thought from 1 Thessalonians 4:18. In 1 Thessalonians 5:2 he explains the events that will follow what he has just described in chapter 4. He says that the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night. That is the Day of the Lord will follow the rapture.

 

[Major1]

Or it could just be 666.

Certainly could.

It is said that the UPC Bar Code contains border numbers which represent the number 6 and that there are 3 of them.

 

[Douggg]

It is a continuation of Paul’s thought from 1 Thessalonians 4:18. In 1 Thessalonians 5:2 he explains the events that will follow what he has just described in chapter 4. He says that the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night. That is the Day of the Lord will follow the rapture.

I agree. But what it does not say is how far after the rapture the Day of the Lord follows.

Day of the Lord shatters the world saying peace and safety. In a pre-trib scenario would that be at the beginning of the seven years, when the Antichrist has confirmed the covenant - which a lot of people think is a peace treaty (although I don't think it is a peace treaty)?

The shattering of the peace and safety feeling would be when the Antichrist goes into the temple and claims to be God, I am pretty sure.

I am not saying that the rapture will not happen Pre-trib (pre-70th week) because it certainly could. I am saying there has to be the possibility that rapture could take place
after the 70th week begins.

I have a rapture timing view I came up with that accommodates the possibility of a pre-trib rapture, and the other possibility of the rapture taking place inside of the 70th week, but before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

 

[5thKingdom]

Then in Revelation we see that there is a New Heaven and Earth...…….21:1.
"Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea".

The Rapture and the 2nd Resurrection which is for the unsaved at the GWT Judgment are 1007 years apart.

That is your (incorrect) interpretation

Satan and death are NOT destroyed my friend.

Of course your fight is with the Word of God (not with me)
If you want to pretend that eternity in the LOF is not destruction
then you can do that... but you must REJECT 1Co 15:26

Rev 20:10
And the devil [Satan] that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire
and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be
tormented day and night for ever and ever.

1Co 15:51-55
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible
must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible
shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall
be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1Co 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


Being cast into the LOF is being "destroyed"
It is certainly not part of having eternal life.
Why would you pretend otherwise?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Certainly could.

It is said that the UPC Bar Code contains border numbers which represent the number 6 and that there are 3 of them.

Of course the "mark is not a bar code.

Are you not aware there were several "Beasts" before the Revelation Beast?
Are you aware that EACH of these Beasts had an "image" and a "mark"?

If you are not aware of these things then how in the world can you expect
to offer an "informed opinion" about the LAST Beast or the LAST "image"
or the LAST "mark"?

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[5thKingdom]

I agree. But what it does not say is how far after the rapture the Day of the Lord follows.

Of course the "rapture" of the Last Saints occurs at the same time
as the "Day of the Lord". Tell me Douggg... how many "last Trumps"
are there in the Bible? Are there several "LAST TRUMPS" or is there
only ONE "Last Trump"?


1Co 15:51-55
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible
must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible
shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be
brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


Rev 11:14-15
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

I respectfully disagree with your opinions.

I am GLAD to hear you disagree...
now please show SCRIPTURE that contradicts something I said.

Certainly you do not think your "feelings" or your "opinion" can
substitute for SCRIPTURE... nor can they establish Truth.

I look forward to you identifying WHAT you think I said that was un-Biblical
and you providing chapter and verse to support your "feelings".

I will await your response.
Do not forget the Scriptures.

Jim
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[5thKingdom]

IMO, the Rapture will be the start of the 70th Week of Daniel.

The rapture occurs unexpectedly prior to the tribulation period.
That is the message of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 we are told that Jesus will descend from heaven and the dead Christians will rise up first. Then those Christians who are alive when Christ comes in the air will rise next and both groups will go up together.

Now it is important to remember that when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians, there were no chapter divisions and no verses. That means 1 Thessalonians 5:1 does not start a new subject because it starts a new chapter. It is a continuation of Paul’s thought from 1 Thessalonians 4:18. In 1 Thessalonians 5:2 he explains the events that will follow what he has just described in chapter 4. He says that the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night. That is the Day of the Lord will follow the rapture.

Of course the day could not come as a "thief in the night" if it follows such
events as the resurrection and the "rapture" (or "changing") of the Last Saints.
1 Thess 4:15 is talking about the SAME EVENT as 1Co 15


1Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


1Co 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible
must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible
shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory?


1Th 5:1
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

The rapture occurs unexpectedly prior to the tribulation period.

How in the world is the LAST TRUMP unexpected when the Last Saints
have already endured the Fifth Trumpet and the Sixth Trumpet?


How in the world can the 3rd WOE be unexpected when the Last Saints
have already endured the 1st WOE and the 2nd WOE?


Do you not realize how un-Bblical your position is (for the Last Saints)
Now I agree the end will come as a thief in the night FOR THE UNSAVED.
But the saved will have PLENTY of warning - having already endured all
the events preceding the 3rd Woe and Seventh (LAST) Trumpet.


In fact, the Last Saints are commanded to preach the unsealed mysteries
of Daniel 12:8-10 and Matthew 24:33 as the Seventh Trumpet
"begins to sound"... so HOW can they be caught unaware?


Now I can understand WHY you disagree with my teachings.
You do not have a grasp on the EVENTS of the three Woes...
You do not understand the Last Saints PREACH mysteries
as the Seventh (LAST) Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.


The 1st Woe (Fifth Trumpet) STARTS the Great Tribulation period with Satan
being loosened from the Pit. [Rev 9:1]


At the end of the END of the 1st Woe (Fifth Trumpet) and the
START of the 2nd Woe (Sixth Trumpet) "a third part of men are killed"
at the appointed year/month/day/hour


Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden
altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose
the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were
loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year,
for to slay the third part of men.


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.


1Co 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible
must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible
shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be
brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


.

 

[5thKingdom]

Ah so this is a personal attack.

I imagine relates to memory of scripture that comes back when I read the question.

Have fun flaming that strawman though.

How is it a "personal attach" to ask you if your imagination defines
the "mark"? Why are you so easily offended? It is not a "strawman"
to repeat your own words back to you. Do you know the definition
of a strawman argument? And it is not "flaming" to repeat your
own words back to you.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Did you think it would be any other way my brother????

The real question to me is why do people have to be that way on a "Christian" forum???

Am I missing something here???

Please get serious. I simply repeated HIS OWN WORDS back to him...
and you think that is not "Christian"... really?

You find it strange that someone would REPEAT BACK another person's words
on a Christian forum? How strange.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

That makes perfect logical and Scriptural sense.

It might make "logical" sense to you.
But it does not make Biblical sense as it has no basis in Scripture
and it ignores the reality that there were several PREVIOUS Beasts
with PREVIOUS "images" and PREVIOUS "marks"

So "Biblical sense" would be to repeat the PREVIOUS and not
to "imagine" something worldly.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Ah so this is a personal attack.

I imagine relates to memory of scripture that comes back when I read the question.

Have fun flaming that strawman though.

I said:
Really? You are going to "imagine" what the "mark" represents?
How can you offer an "informed opinion" based on your imagination?

Are you aware there were other "Beasts" and other "images"
and other "marks"... don't you think that information would
be helpful for your imagination?


When you "imagine" does NOT relate to Scripture,
it relates to your "imagination"... that is the definition,
whether you choose to admit it or not.

Secondly, I notice you IGNORED what I said about
the PREVIOUS Beasts and the PREVIOUS "images"
and the PREVIOUS "marks". Do you think that
BIBLICAL information would be relevant?

A strawman is when I CHANGE your argument...
not when I REPEAT your own words.

I did not realize you are so sensitive, please forgive me
if I "offended" you by providing information about the
PREVIOUS Beasts and PREVIOUS images and PREVIOUS
marks... I thought you would find them relevant.
Apparently you do not.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Major, all you are showing us is that you really don't understand this passage.
Did you notice, for example, that verses 6 - 8 show us absolutely that the man of sin cannot be revealed until this restraining force is removed or "taken out of the way?" Get it straight: he CANNOT be revealed until the restrainer is gone - no longer restraining or holding back.

Then, did you notice that in verse 3b the man of sin IS REVEALED? WHAT? Yes, IS REVEALED.

Did you notice that Paul wrote, "and now you know what is restraining..." How Paul? HOW can we know? Paul's intent is that we back up and read more carefully. Because it is very plain: in 3b the man of sin IS revealed, meaning that in 3a the restrainer has been "taken out of the way."

I challenge you to search 3a to find something that has been taken out of the way. There is only ONE possibility: it is hidden in that word, "apostasia." Early translations into English translated that word as "the departing." Go and look: the "THE" is there in every Greek text. It is a very significant "departing."

You choose: since the THEME of the entire passage is the rapture of the church, or Paul's "gathering," the departing could be the church being taken out of the way, so the Holy Spirit would a moment after have NO ONE on earth to work through to restrain.

OR, it is a great falling away (from what that word does not tell us)that causes the man of sin to be revealed. Again, you choose.

Question: if you choose the falling away, how in the world would anyone in that situation: thinking that The Day of the Lord had started and they were no in it - how would they know that ENOUGH have fallen away to know: "ah, this is what Paul was saying..." The truth is, when one "falls away" two more come. The church has been steadily growing.

Since Paul's theme is the rapture, I think Paul is telling us that it is the Holy Spirit - through the church - that is the restraining force. But when the church has departed - been "taken out of the way" - THEN the man of sin can be revealed.

Paul's argument then for those who thought the day had started: NO, it has not started. When you see the departing of the church, THEN the man of sin revealed, THEN you can know for sure that "The Day of the Lord" has started and you are now IN IT. Everyone in the world will know for certainty that a HUGE group of people have departed earth: just disappeared. Those that read Paul can know for certain that this is a very significant departure. (This is supposing that someone knows the scriptures but are not a true believer so are left behind. Hmmm. Jews know the scriptures will - even the New Testament.)

You equate the removal of the Holy Spirit with the removal of the church.
That is not necessarily so. When the Great Commission is finished (also shown
as the testimony of the Two Witnesses being finished) then the Holy Spirit can
be withdrawn and Satan can be loosened and his chief emissary on earth,
the Anitchirst, can rise to deceive the Last Saints.

Just as there is still Jewish churches (Temples) around AFTER they had the
Holy Spirit TAKEN from them... so also there can be Christian churches
around AFTER the Holy Spirit is TAKEN from them... in fact, we could
argue there are many apostate churches today with no Holy Spirit.


Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN from you,
and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.


In fact we can make the argument that Satan cannot be "loosened"
from the Pit and his Antichrist cannot rise until AFTER the Holy Spirit
has been taken away. How could Satan and the Antichrist RULE
when the Great Commission is still ongoing... clearly Jesus said
that HE RULES during the Great Commission;


Mat 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them
to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


BTW... the correct translation is the "end of the age" (not world)
which indicates the end of the age of the Great Commission.


And we see the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
could not begin (Satan and the Antichrist could not RULE) until AFTER
all the elect have been "sealed" (saved).


Rev 7:2
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal
of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels,
to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying,
Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees,
till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


Jesus talked about a "NIGHT" in which no man can "work".
That was talking about the RULE of Satan and his Antichrist
RULING during the Great Tribulation and/or Revelation Beast.
That means the Holy Spirit (but not the church) must be
removed BEFORE Satan and the Antichrist are able to
have the POWER and SEAT [rule] and AUTHORITY
during the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast.


Rev 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet
were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
and the dragon [Satan] gave him [the Antichrist] his power,
and his seat, and great authority.


Just as there are now Jewish churches (Temples) after the Holy Spirit
was TAKEN from them... so also there will be Christian churches on
earth after the Holy Spirit is TAKEN out of the way... in fact, the
focus of the attack of Satan and the Antichrist is on the Last Saints
that are IN THE CHURCHES


Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war
with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


I could go on with more examples... but I think you can get the idea
from what I have already revealed.


Jim
.

 

[Timtofly]

Just as there are now Jewish churches (Temples) after the Holy Spirit
was TAKEN from them...

Where does it say the Holy Spirit worked in synagogues? This is circular reasoning. The Holy Spirit was taken away, because the Holy Spirit was there, because the Holy Spirit was taken away.

 

[Timtofly]

If Revelation refers to the present times, and the mark is literal, wouldn't we be seeing it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not before seeing Satan first. But we are not looking for Satan. We are looking for the glorious appearing of God and the Lamb. Titus 2:13
"Looking for that blessed hope, and appearing of that glory of that mighty God, and of our Savior Jesus Christ."