Authorized King James Bible: "Universe"

[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[Athanasius377]

My favorite Bible now is the DRB, but for 66 book Bibles, it's hard to beat the King James. The Berkeley Version is also, imho, worth trying to find, and compare. It is not a translation, exactly, but a tweaking of some of the KJV's vocabulary, and it is quite good.

That's not surprising given the DRB history. The KVJ translation team did consult the DRB when preparing the text that would become the 1611 KJV. Also, the DRB that you referenced is the Challoner revision he likely referenced the KJV in addition to the Clementine Vulgate. In other words the two versions reference each other in places (probably more) so it's no wonder more traditional minded catholics like yourself appreciate the KJV. Here is an article in my bible dictionary:


Challoner’s edition of the DR eventually became the commonly read Roman Catholic English-language Bible translation. It proved to be a hybrid of Roman Catholic and Anglican efforts at English-language translation. Since the compilers of the King James Version of 1604–1611 also consulted the DR Bible along with original-language texts, the flow of vocabulary and ideas between the texts is in both directions. Although the KJV translators rejected the “obscurity of the Papists, in their [use of such words as] azimes … holocausts … pasche, and a number of such like” (Preface, 1611 KJV), on occasion they seem to have emulated the style and syntax of the DR.
Roman Catholic bishop Bernard MacMahon revised the DR in a series of editions that ran from 1783. MacMahon’s revision reversed some of the DR’s earlier harmonizations to the KJV and therefore reinforced the translation’s uniquely Roman Catholic overtones. MacMahon’s edition and others were printed and distributed in the United States from the late 18th century onward.


Gibson, S. (2016). Douay Version. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

 

[James Chairs4U]

Good morning,
I also use the NKV and are attempting to read the Bible one book/chapter at a time asking questions and attempting to find answers.
James

www.readthebible.online
James

While I do compare versions, I only hold the King James Version of the Bible to be my source of scripture. To give an example of why I am "KJV only" :

"Universe" is mentioned 4 times in the NLT, 4 times in the NIV, 2 times in the ESV, 2 times in the CSB, 4 times in the RSV, and 1 time in the HNV.

I'll use only the NIV for sake of example:

NIV: 1Co 4:9 - For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings.

Greek word: kosmos - translated from "to the world".

NIV: Eph 4:10 - He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.

Greek word: pas - translated from "all things".

NIV: Heb 1:2 - but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Greek word: aion - translated from "the world".

NIV: Heb 11:3 - By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Greek word: aion - translated from "the worlds"
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The word "universe" is not in the Authorized King James Bible


What is "universe" in etymology:


1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world," noun use of neuter of adjective universus "all together, all in one, whole, entire, relating to all," literally "turned into one," from unus"one" (from PIE root *oi-no- "one, unique") + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn, turn back, be turned; convert, transform, translate; be changed" (from PIE root *wer- (2) "to turn, bend").

universe | Origin and meaning of universe by Online Etymology Dictionary

What is "universe" in the Dictionary:

1: the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated : COSMOS: such as

a: a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power

b: the world of human experience

c(1): the entire celestial cosmos

(2): MILKY WAY GALAXY

(3): an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy

Definition of UNIVERSE

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Why this example:

I have chosen this example because while the term "universe" is correct, though only from etymology, (all things/the whole thing) it's still deceptive for those who read scripture without studying translation and original meaning.

This example also resulted because someone brought up to me today that scripture taught the "universe" as it's understood today. This is wrong, it doesn't and I believe I've proven it doesn't. I think some are just too quick to read into scripture, rather than read scripture.

 

[GingerBeer]

I only hold the King James Version of the Bible to be my source of scripture

Any bible version is okay to use if it is the one that is needed to communicate the gospel to its reader. The KJV was popular for a long time in the USA so many people have one. That's good enough reason to use it when talking to people about God, but if they say "I don't get that Thee and Thou stuff" toss the KJV and use the Message or something

 

[GingerBeer]

One of the best reasons to use the KJV is it is the only version that is public domain. Thou shalt not steal.

The ASV is public domain. ASV is American Standard Version from 1901.

 

[James Chairs4U]

Hello . I agree over all the thee and thou being difficult to read thus there is always the NKJV

Any bible version is okay to use if it is the one that is needed to communicate the gospel to its reader. The KJV was popular for a long time in the USA so many people have one. That's good enough reason to use it when talking to people about God, but if they say "I don't get that Thee and Thou stuff" toss the KJV and use the Message or something

 

[Radagast]

but if they say "I don't get that Thee and Thou stuff" toss the KJV and use the Message or something

Or you could use something both accurate and readable, like the ESV.

 

[James Chairs4U]

Or you could use something both accurate and readable, like the ESV.

Hello,
The Dialet of the KJV or NKJV cannot be beaten there is only one!

James

 

[GingerBeer]

Or you could use something both accurate and readable, like the ESV.

Meh!

The ESV is just evangelical not accurate.

 

[Radagast]

Meh!

The ESV is just evangelical not accurate.

No, it's probably the most accurate translation out there.

Do you have any specific criticism of its translation, or are you just hostile to anything that starts with "E"?

 

[GingerBeer]

No, it's probably the most accurate translation out there.

Do you have any specific criticism of its translation, or are you just hostile to anything that starts with "E"?

The RSV is more accurate

 

[Toro]

The version of the Bible is of little importance, considering that God chooses to reveal to us what He reveals through the Spirit. To say that God can reach one through KJV only is to vastly underestimate God's ability and power to speak to His people.

Even the most pure of translations... even the original text can be twisted to fit the wicked hearts of man if they chose to do so.

It's better a person picks up an ESV, NIV, KJV, NKJV etc... than not at all.

Just as with the importance of a day:

Roman's 14: 5-7

Let each be convinced in their own mind that they choose the right version for themselves.

As long as the book is opened in an attempt to grow closer to the Lord and know Him.... they are reading that version to and to recieve the Lord.

 

[timothyu]

God's reveals to us from cover to cover man's will vs God's will. Jesus came to teach the Gospel of the Kingdom. God revealed that Gospel to us and sent His Son to fulfil it yet the religion follows another. So when you come right down to it, unless you are willing to seek what God is trying to get across to you regarding the above, it doesn't matter what you read because the Spirit won't be there. Those at the Pentecost were of the Kingdom, not of the Christian religion. The spirit was sent to keep them on the path of the Kingdom, not help free lancers in theology.

 

[Radagast]

The RSV is more accurate

So you say. But is it just prejudice, or do you have a basis or what you say?

There are actually not all that many differences between the ESV and RSV. For which of those differences do you think the ESV is wrong?

 

[Radagast]

For which of those differences do you think the ESV is wrong?

To take a specific example, Romans 9:5 has: ὧν οἱ πατέρες, καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ Χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα· ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.

The ESV (correctly imho) has "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." The NIV main text, CSB, and NLT follow the ESV, as does the RSV footnote.

The main RSV reading cannot imho be seriously defended ("to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen."), since ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων clearly refers back to Christ (both grammatically and stylistically, since "according to the flesh" requires some kind of contrasting phrase, and a standalone doxology would begin with εὐλογητὸς, as in 2 Corinthians 1:3 or Ephesians 1:3).

 

[GingerBeer]

So you say. But is it just prejudice, or do you have a basis or what you say?

There are actually not all that many differences between the ESV and RSV. For which of those differences do you think the ESV is wrong?

The NRSV is better too.

 

[timothyu]

Always interesting how people, let alone translations say Christ instead of the Christ or Jesus Christ instead of Christ Jesus. Yes Christ is an adjective but if we are going to use it as a name rather than a description then would we not be really saying for instance 'people were gathered when Messiah came to town'. Would we not throw in the 'the'?

 

[Radagast]

The NRSV is better too.

Your repeated refusal to give evidence indicates that there is none.

It's just prejudice against things starting with "E" after all.

Putting you on ignore. I'm well and truly over the increasing hostility toward Evangelicals.

 

[GingerBeer]

I like the NKJV better too, and it is scarily evangelical

 

[GingerBeer]

Your repeated refusal to give evidence indicates that there is none.

It's just prejudice against things starting with "E" after all.

Putting you on ignore.

Perhaps it has not occurred to you but I really do not care if you put me on ignore.

I hope you enjoy the experience

God bless you Radagast.