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Featured Authorized King James Bible: "Universe"

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Zetetic Woman, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. Zetetic Woman

    Zetetic Woman Member

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    While I do compare versions, I only hold the King James Version of the Bible to be my source of scripture. To give an example of why I am "KJV only" :

    "Universe" is mentioned 4 times in the NLT, 4 times in the NIV, 2 times in the ESV, 2 times in the CSB, 4 times in the RSV, and 1 time in the HNV.

    I'll use only the NIV for sake of example:

    NIV: 1Co 4:9 - For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings.

    Greek word: kosmos - translated from "to the world".

    NIV: Eph 4:10 - He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.

    Greek word: pas - translated from "all things".

    NIV: Heb 1:2 - but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

    Greek word: aion - translated from "the world".

    NIV: Heb 11:3 - By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

    Greek word: aion - translated from "the worlds"
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    The word "universe" is not in the Authorized King James Bible


    What is "universe" in etymology:


    1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world," noun use of neuter of adjective universus "all together, all in one, whole, entire, relating to all," literally "turned into one," from unus"one" (from PIE root *oi-no- "one, unique") + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn, turn back, be turned; convert, transform, translate; be changed" (from PIE root *wer- (2) "to turn, bend").

    universe | Origin and meaning of universe by Online Etymology Dictionary

    What is "universe" in the Dictionary:

    1: the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated : COSMOS: such as

    a: a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power

    b: the world of human experience

    c(1): the entire celestial cosmos

    (2): MILKY WAY GALAXY

    (3): an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy

    Definition of UNIVERSE


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    Why this example:

    I have chosen this example because while the term "universe" is correct, though only from etymology, (all things/the whole thing) it's still deceptive for those who read scripture without studying translation and original meaning.

    This example also resulted because someone brought up to me today that scripture taught the "universe" as it's understood today. This is wrong, it doesn't and I believe I've proven it doesn't. I think some are just too quick to read into scripture, rather than read scripture.
     
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  2. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    The reference to the universe is the 'heavens and the earth' in Gen. 1:1, actually heaven is singular there. I think that is the Hebrew equivalent in Genesis.
     
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  3. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    One of the best reasons to use the KJV is it is the only version that is public domain. Thou shalt not steal.
     
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  4. jason_delisle

    jason_delisle Well-Known Member

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    Did the word "Universe" exist when the KJV was written?
     
  5. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    My favorite Bible now is the DRB, but for 66 book Bibles, it's hard to beat the King James. The Berkeley Version is also, imho, worth trying to find, and compare. It is not a translation, exactly, but a tweaking of some of the KJV's vocabulary, and it is quite good.
     
  6. jason_delisle

    jason_delisle Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is a problem to have the KJV as a preference. I also acknowledge that some translation are better than others for specific purposes. However, I wouldn't say that the KJV is the "best" translation. I definitely will not say that it is the "Official" translation or in any way have more authority over any other translation.
     
  7. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Actually, the crown of England still retains the rights to the KJV, yet I don't think you will be sued if you quote it without a proper citation.
     
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  8. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I like the NKJV but the old KJV is keyed to a lot of references, which makes it indispensable. The Strong's numbering system is a reference I go back to again and again but I've grown fond of the NIV over the years for how it handles the OT passages.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    New International Version
    For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings.

    New Living Translation
    Instead, I sometimes think God has put us apostles on display, like prisoners of war at the end of a victor's parade, condemned to die. We have become a spectacle to the entire world--to people and angels alike.

    English Standard Version
    For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death, because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men.

    Berean Study Bible
    For it seems to me that God has displayed us apostles at the end of the procession, like prisoners appointed for death. We have become a spectacle to the whole world, to angels as well as to men.

    Berean Literal Bible
    For I think God has exhibited us, the apostles, last, as appointed to death, because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.

    New American Standard Bible
    For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.

    King James Bible
    For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

    Christian Standard Bible
    For I think God has displayed us, the apostles, in last place, like men condemned to die: We have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to people.

    Contemporary English Version
    It seems to me that God has put us apostles in the worst possible place. We are like prisoners on their way to death. Angels and the people of this world just laugh at us.

    Good News Translation
    For it seems to me that God has given the very last place to us apostles, like people condemned to die in public as a spectacle for the whole world of angels and of human beings.
     
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  10. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    1. The KJV is not public domain. Copyright is held by the British Crown (as already noted).

    2. It's not good for a bible to be public domain: it means unauthorised modification is allowed.

    3. Stealing is not an issue: most modern translations have a "permission to quote for free" that's quite generous.
     
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  11. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    The Greek word "cosmos" has several meanings. One common meaning is "the earth, the sun, the stars, and everything other created thing." When this is the intended meaning, "universe" is perhaps the best English translation, so the NIV is not wrong here.

    In Ephesians 4:10, "all things" would be more literally correct, because that is what the Greek ta panta means. However, "all things" in this context can be interpreted as "the universe." The NIV is paraphrasing a little, but not in a bad way. Several other translations do the same.

    It was a very new word back in 1611. People back then mostly used "world" for what we mean by "universe."

    The NT teaches a universe, but not quite "as it's understood today." The earth was generally believed to be in the centre.
     
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  12. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    But that's available for several translations, both in print and online (see www.blueletterbible.org).
     
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  13. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    As far as I know BLB only provides the Strong's numbers for the KJV, I'd just love it if there was something like that for the NIV. People talk about all these different translations, but there are only two primary sources for the originals, Westcott-Hort and Textus Recepticus. The Olive Tree Online site used to have Textus Recepticus available but they took it down, guess they want you to buy it :)
     
  14. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Actually a Royal prerogative, not copyright of the authorized version, but considered public domain as it can be quoted in limited text within the commonwealth unlike other translations designed to profit from copyright.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  15. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Mankind is earth as we are made from it. The universe is earth. In the Lord's prayer it says in earth... Thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven. This suggests two differing domains, the one being the universe composed of earth (not the planet) common throughout the universe, the other a dimension unknown to fleshy man and outside 'in earth', the universe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  16. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    Well, the Strong's numbers are actually a property of the Greek text, not the translation. Most electronic Greek texts have the Strong's numbers. My go-to Greek-only resource is Greek and Hebrew Reader Online which has them.

    The interlinear at Interlinear Bible: Greek, Hebrew, Transliterated, English, Strong's has them too. It uses the Nestle 1904 Greek New Testament.
     
  17. jason_delisle

    jason_delisle Well-Known Member

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    I never heard on one person ever getting sued for quoting any bible version without citation.
     
  18. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    That was a joke, there is a note in the KJV that all rights reserved to the crown. I'm pretty sure the Cambridge people have never sued anyone in over 400 years.
     
  19. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    They might do if people started issuing unauthorised modifications of the KJV (which has actually happened in the US).
     
  20. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    You would get into trouble if, without permission, you started selling a little booklet which was actually just a large chunk of a recent translation of the Bible copied verbatim.
     
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