Australian couple tells pope and cardinals how great sex life kept them together

Fish and Bread

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"complained that the Vatican’s own teachings on sexual matters were often impenetrable"
:)

LOL! I didn't catch that the first time I read it. The use of that last word in that context is pretty funny.
 
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FireDragon76

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Quite frankly a lot of official teachings on the ethics of sexuality sound like they come from a different planet. One where the human body is something to be meticulously managed and regarded as inherently problematic.
 
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Fish and Bread

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There's nothing wrong with that.

Edit: I mean enjoying sex with your spouse

I agree, of course. There was a time when the Church seemed to teach that sex was solely for procreation, though. Things have correctly evolved theologically to recognize a purpose of uniting people to one another as well, although some conservative theologians will still unfortunately list this as secondary to procreation, or as conjecture. The Church has also yet to formally recognize mutual pleasure as one of the purposes of sex, however- obvious though it may be to most of us. It doesn't formally teach against it, but it's not taught systematically in a positive way very often. So, there actually is significance here in a brave couple getting up and telling a group of Cardinals about how their great sex life kept them together and how much they enjoy it, and being applauded. That type of scenario is one of the fruits of Vatican II. The Church is evolving in a more sex-positive direction, I think, and in a direct where the laity may yet gain more of a voice in the Church.

Even John-Paul II, who I do not consider a liberal, really helped a lot of people with his Theology of the Body, which while not necessarily liberal in an absolute sense (In it he reaffirms an opposition to contraception), was progressive in the sense of representing an evolution in Church teaching from a focus almost solely on procreation and sexual sin to a focus that also included a sense of spouses being open to one another with their bodies and forming a closer bond through sex as an act of love (In this he built on the work of other theologians and clergy, but he was the Pope and could teach it more definitively to a wider audience). It was specifically in the spirit of the council in the sense that council in general tried to take what the Church have previous perhaps taught at best by implication by allowing people to figure out what was condemned by anathemas and "thou shalt nots", and taught it positively and affirmatively by adding an explicit (In the sense of being direct, not in the sense of sexually explicit) meaning and blessing to things that before we were the sort of things that might have been acknowledged in only a roundabout subtle way if it all (Often traditionalists will complain that Vatican II did not follow the traditional format of councils issuing anathemas [Listing perceived errors and heresies], but I think that bishops who assembled at Vatican II turned that on it's head with great intentionality by instead expressing what the Church believes in a positive way.).

I'd also note that the couple talked about how they welcomed their gay son's partner into their home for the holidays. That may have also been a message that was important for the Cardinals to hear.

While I am not one to say that celibate prelates can not understand or should not talk about sex and parenthood (Sometimes less involved observers can have important and unique perspectives on things because they don't stand to benefit or to lose by any given change in the status quo, which adds to the discussion but should not be the entirety of the discussion for obvious reasons), and so on and so forth, I do think there is an obvious lack of experience there (Other than in cases where things occurred prior to vows being taken), and that is very healthy and good for the Church to have lay people share their real honest frank experiences on these subjects and for Cardinals and bishops and priests to really listen and take those direct experiences and emotions from stakeholders in these subjects into account. After all, these clergymen will never have a spouse to have sex with (Barring a change in celibacy rules, or an individual departure by some of them from the priesthood), and will never have a gay son who wants to bring his partner home for the holidays. Understanding these subjects through the eyes of people who are directly effected and have direct insights on how things work in practice can help clergy be better pastors and can even sometimes give them new perspectives on theology and what the Church should be teaching, in combination with other factors.

Catholic guilt has always been a thing. It would be great if we could raise the next generation of Catholics without the guilt.
 
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