Attn: Muslims

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by mac_philo


The contradiction here is what you believe to be true and what they believe to be true.

We are starting with axioms between two "believers," and given that, the Muslims do teach a logical contradiction, as explained in post 1.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Muslimah
Well he didn't get it from the bible

Twas revealed to him by Allah & then it was written down by those who could write and read.

I thought the Angel Gabriel gave it to him or something like that?  Ok, so if he told people stuff to write down, how does he know that they wrote the right stuff?  He couldnt even check what they wrote, since he couldn't read.

 

[mac_philo]

Originally posted by s0uljah


We are starting with axioms between two "believers," and given that, the Muslims do teach a logical contradiction, as explained in post 1.

No, you are starting with axioms between two believers, and moving from the conviction that you are right to the conclusion the he is contradicting himself.

If you are using a specialized understanding of contradiction, fine. But there is no logical contradiction here in either of your positions. It's also arbitrary for you to state that the incompatibility (not logical contradiction) of these various propositions is his problem; one could just as easily say that the incompatibility is due the the christian belief that jesus is god.

When two propositions are incompatible that doesn't entail a logical contradiction. This is about the truth value of the propositions, not the structure of the argument. Logical contradictions are caused by the structure of an argument. If your argument entails p and not p, that is a logical contradiction. All we have here is one person saying p, another person saying not p. You're saying that he shares your 'axioms' when it's highly unlikely that he does.

 

[lisa03wilson]

this site has some good stuff on it, I'm still reading through all of it but it deals with claimed contridictions in the Bible, and has a small part on the Bible and science. I know I've seen more complete sites out there, and I'll keep looking, but this one is pretty good to start.

http://www.dyeager.org/skeptic/

 

[Muslimah]

is that all then?
no more?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

I have provided you with a start...do more research if you want.

You still havent addressed the contradiction. How can Jesus be a good moral teacher if He claimed to be God?

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by s0uljah


I thought the Angel Gabriel gave it to him or something like that?  Ok, so if he told people stuff to write down, how does he know that they wrote the right stuff?  He couldnt even check what they wrote, since he couldn't read.

uh huh
Allah told the angel and angel told him , but basically hes getting revelation from god

More than one person wrote each thing down and then they all checked it to make sure it was correct , including his wives..

and these ppl were his followers , followers of Islam , who observed him and learnt from him..

 

[Muslimah]

he cant be god and a moral teacher
u think hes god
i think he was just a prophet

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

"he cant be god and a moral teacher "

Right. But he said He was God. So was he lying, crazy, or a devil?

 

[Muslimah]

I would never say any of those things about Isa
Its your Bible that lies , What is the point of this anyway?
I won't agree with you & you won't agree with me & the atheist wont agree with any of us

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

How do you know my Bible lies?

 

[coolhandluke]

how do you know the Koran lies?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by coolhandluke
how do you know the Koran lies?

I didnt make the claim, she did.

 

[coolhandluke]

well, the bible contradicts her beliefs, which obviously means she thinks it lies. the koran contradicts your beliefs, so you believe it's false.

 

[Muslimah]

but if you dont think the Quran is correct , then you must think its lies right?

 

[isshinwhat]

What portions of text did Abu Bekr decide to exclude from the final version of the Q'uran? Are there any copies of them left, or were they all destroyed?

Neal

 

[Muslimah]

ok... I know the Bible lies cause I believe in Allah and I believe in his Quran , I believe every word in the Quran and Allah tells us in the Quran that the Bible has been distorted..

Sura 3 - Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) - Ayat 78
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah. It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!

Sura 5 - Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread) - Ayat 14
From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

And Then he tells us to forget past revelations and follow the new book..

Sura 5 - Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread) - Ayat 15
O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,-

Sooo thats how I know Isa was not crazy or a devil or telling lies & also how I know that he isn't any sort of god and how I know the Bible is lies & I shouldn't follow it.

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by isshinwhat
What portions of text did Abu Bekr decide to exclude from the final version of the Q'uran? Are there any copies of them left, or were they all destroyed?

Neal

Excluding & Hiding text that has been revealed is something your faith does , not mine

 

[isshinwhat]

Was the Q'uran was already in its current form before Abu Bekr decided to back the collection of Zaid ibn Thabit, ignoring the other texts that were present and burning them?

Neal

 

[Muslimah]

i dunno any Abu Bekr