Attitude of certain online Christians and Science... (resolved)

[brinny]

Thanks. You're being too nice. Altho I don't know what genteel means...

LOL! No, i'm being genuinely honest.

genteel = polite; elegant; stylish.

 

[brinny]

The thing I would like to convey is to have a discussion about is why, with regards to science, a small number of believers feel that, even though they have no formal training or schooling in the field of science, feel that they are in the right when talking over scientists who do have formal training or schooling in the field of science.

Fair enough.....

Jack of Spades gave very good perspective in his responses, at least from my viewpoint.

Did you find them helpful?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Fair enough.....

Jack of Spades gave very good perspective in his responses, at least from my viewpoint.

Did you find them helpful?

Yes, Jack of Spades response was helpful and was quite a concise view of what I was looking to discuss.
So... does that mean that this thread can be closed now?

 

[bhsmte]

Let's exarrogate a bit for demonstration:

I speak with God and discuss this with a shrink. The shrink tells me that I'm nuts, because hearing voices is sign of mental illness. Now, if I accept his expert opinion as superior to my own experience, I will have to agree that I'm nuts.

If I instead want to hold to my own interpration of my experience, that I was having a conversation with God, I have to dismiss the expert opinion. I am forced to make a choice between my experience and my interpretion of that experience vs expert opinion representing science.

People claiming to have conversations with those who are unseen could be a sign of mental illness, or it could be a sign they just; really, really have a psychological need to feel they are talking to whomever.

I don't think the OP is referring to this type of science that is denied, but the hard evidence from science that is denied, such as the abundance of evidence for evolution and or the age of the universe and earth.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

People claiming to have conversations with those who are unseen could be a sign of mental illness, or it could be a sign they just; really, really have a psychological need to feel they are talking to whomever.

I don't think the OP is referring to this type of science that is denied, but the hard evidence from science that is denied, such as the abundance of evidence for evolution and or the age of the universe and earth.

Well, yes the hard sciences was what I was referring to in my OP, but I do feel that Jack of Spades view that, since the persons conclusion is drawn from the Bible and to see that conclusion questioned when it fills a need for them makes them act in a (sort of) aggressive fashion does kind of answer my OP.

 

[brinny]

Yes, Jack of Spades response was helpful and was quite a concise view of what I was looking to discuss.
So... does that mean that this thread can be closed now?

I dunno, did you wanna close the thread?

i hope that some of the conversation has been helpful.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I dunno, did you wanna close the thread?

i hope that some of the conversation has been helpful.

Eh, in a roundabout way, it has been quite useful. If you exclude the unpleasantness at the beginning.
So, yeah, I think that I can close this thread now.

 

[brinny]

Eh, in a roundabout way, it has been quite useful. If you exclude the unpleasantness at the beginning.
So, yeah, I think that I can close this thread now.

Ok, i'm glad the conversation continued, and Jack of Spades added his perspective. i'm glad we had a chance to communicate as well.

Thank you.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Now I just have to figure out what to do to close a thread. Hehe.
The FAQ's under construction, so that's no help.

 

[Jack of Spades]

So, yeah, I think that I can close this thread now.

Just for info, closing threads is not the usual practise in CF, it's usually done only by mods when there is rule violation. You can just let it idle when you're done.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Just for info, closing threads is not the usual practise in CF, it's usually done only by mods when there is rule violation. You can just let it idle when you're done.

Ah. Now, the only thing is, is that I'm worried about necroing the thread.

 

[Jack of Spades]

People claiming to have conversations with those who are unseen could be a sign of mental illness, or it could be a sign they just; really, really have a psychological need to feel they are talking to whomever.

It was meant to be just a demonstration, not so much through out examination about scientific positions on mystical experiences.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Ah. Now, the only thing is, is that I'm worried about necroing the thread.

If someone else necroes it, it's their problem really, not yours.

I have never had my thread closed, so I don't know how it's done, but I assume you can contact mod and ask them to close it for you, if that's what you want. I've seen some threads end with mod posting "closed at OPs request"

 

[Job8]

• "Science is only an opinion."
• "Science does not listen to fringe groups, ergo Science is wrong."
• "Science is of the Anti-Christ."
• "Science has been wrong in the past, ergo it must be wrong now."
• And many others that would take too long to post.

Since I am a Young Earth Creationist and also hold a bona fide Master of Science degree, I believe I should respond to this:

1. There is genuine science and there is pseudo-science, and people should distinguish between the two. The bulk of scientific endeavor is genuine. But proving evolution is "pseudo-science", and there are many Christian and non-Christian scientists who will agree.

2. All natural laws were created (and are sustained) by God. Therefore human scientific endeavor is actually from God (not "Mother Nature").

WHY do the people in this subset of Christianity hold the view that they are authorities in subjects they know nothing about and will willingly display a shocking level of arrogance when their own holy book tells them that arrogance is something their God despise?

When Christians hold to their convictions tenaciously, they are labeled as "arrogant", but when Atheists and liberals spout off their convictions and deride Christians, they are labeled as "enlightened" and "progressive".

The fact of the matter is that EVOLUTION IS A LIE, whereas the Bible is God's truth. Therefore Christians have no problem with preferring truth over lies. The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ goes all the way back to Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:15). Therefore Christians can be certain that evolution has nothing to offer the world other than delusion. Would anyone prefer to believe that one of their ancestors was a chimpanzee, when God tells us that He created man in His image and in His likeness?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

People claiming to have conversations with those who are unseen could be a sign of mental illness, or it could be a sign they just; really, really have a psychological need to feel they are talking to whomever.

The Apostle Paul went from persecuting Christians to being a Christian who was later persecuted himself. This transformation began with a literal visit with Christ.
From an ethereal realm, all the usual charms were there.

And there's nothing to show that he was mentally ill or had some psychological need. He was doing quite well for himself as a Jewish prosecutor. Something extraordinary happened to him during a routine commute to Damascus which changed that.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Since I am a Young Earth Creationist and also hold a bona fide Master of Science degree, I believe I should respond to this:

1. There is genuine science and there is pseudo-science, and people should distinguish between the two. The bulk of scientific endeavor is genuine. But proving evolution is "pseudo-science", and there are many Christian and non-Christian scientists who will agree.

2. All natural laws were created (and are sustained) by God. Therefore human scientific endeavor is actually from God (not "Mother Nature").

When Christians hold to their convictions tenaciously, they are labeled as "arrogant", but when Atheists and liberals spout off their convictions are deride Christians, they are labeled as "enlightened" and "progressive".

The fact of the matter is that EVOLUTION IS A LIE, whereas the Bible is God's truth. Therefore Christians have no problem with preferring truth over lies. The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ goes all the way back to Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:15). Therefore Christians can be certain that evolution has nothing to offer the world other than delusion. Would anyone prefer to believe that one of their ancestors was a chimpanzee, when God tells us that He created man in His image and in His likeness?

And this is what I wanted to avoid. I did not want to this to turn in to a discussion on evolution or other sciences. There is a subforum for that. If you wish to talk about evolution, go do it there.

 

[Black Dog]

I don't see anything but supreme arrogance by unbelievers. The nerve of many of them are pretty astounding actually.

How can not believing in a supernatural being be "supreme arrogance"? Would it make sense if I said not believing in Santa was supreme arrogance?

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed at OP request


BTW, for those wondering, if you want your thread closed, you can pm a staff member, or report your OP and make the request.