Atheists: What If You Are Wrong?

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Of course, I expect I am not expressing these rather complicated thoughts with clarity. Particularly to the non-believer, and apologize for my limitations of vocabulary and intellectual prowess. But on the last day, a good many of us will be surprised, I suspect, of who we see and don't see in any given eternal state of being.

Honestly? You're actually doing really well. I have to admit that I'm speaking as an ex-Catholic and so I know the theological jargon, but I think that you did a pretty good job of explaining the concept myself.

 

[Texas Ranger]

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is.
Albert Camus

 

[quatona]

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is.
Albert Camus

Ewig währt am längsten.
Kurt Schwitters

 

[variant]

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is.
Albert Camus

You are aware that Albert Camus was an atheist.

 

[Texas Ranger]

You are aware that Albert Camus was an atheist that killed himself right?

I rest my case.

 

[variant]

I rest my case.

I'm guessing you don't have the first clue what he was talking about.

 

[Texas Ranger]

I'm guessing you don't have the first clue what he was talking about.

Enlighten me.

 

[variant]

Dp

 

[variant]

Enlighten me.

He would have spoken the quote in the context of his philosophy of absurdism, the conflict between the human search for meaning and the apparent meaninglessness of the universe.

This means that he wants to act like the universe has meaning even if he doesn't believe that ultimately humanity will ever find it.

The "as if there is a God" doesn't point to Christianity.

This also seems that it might be a misquote.

 

[JGL53]

Just a general heads-up to any of the confused pious concerned: The moral pragmatism argument for god and/or the mental health argument for god are both ridiculous.

We won't be good unless we believe in god?

We will be suicidal if we don't believe in god?

Utterly absurd arguments, based on the facts.

But thanks for playing the game. There is no consolation prize for second place. Sorry.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I rest my case.

I'm not actually sure that Camus ever said that. I've seen it attributed to him online, but never with a source. There are attributions to other authors, too, include Blase Pascal. Blase Pascal, oddly enough, almost definitely never said it either. It's a reformulation of Pascal's Wager, but the wager itself (while problematic) focused on the benefits of believing in God if he did exist rather than the problems with not believing in God if he did.

Camus was a life-long agnostic, and he didn't kill himself. He died in a car accident. He had a very well developed philosophy of suicide based on the question of whether it was the only logical response to the absurdity of hoping to find a meaning to life from a human perspective, but ultimately concluded that it was a rejection of freedom.

If he said something like that (which I doubt, because I've not found good attribution for the quote), it's pretty clear that it wasn't an acceptance of a modified Pascal's Wager. Camus was very opposed to religion, and actually negatively compared it to suicide.

 

[variant]

I'm not actually sure that Camus ever said that.

I've been trying to track down the source for a bit now. It's been rejected from wikiquote because no one could find the source.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I've been trying to track down the source for a bit now. It's been rejected from wikiquote because no one could find the source.

It seems like the kind of thing that might have gotten started accidentally by someone who actually didn't know anything about Camus, but saw it on a site where it was mistakenly attributed or where the attribution was confusing. The value of such an odd quote from an absurdist philosopher would probably have caught on quickly, with or without proper attribution.

 

[variant]

It seems like the kind of thing that might have gotten started accidentally by someone who actually didn't know anything about Camus, but saw it on a site where it was mistakenly attributed or where the attribution was confusing. The value of such an odd quote from an absurdist philosopher would probably have caught on quickly, with or without proper attribution.

I also can't find out who properly said it. Ah well.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I also can't find out who properly said it. Ah well.

My guess is that no one famous ever said it. It's probably a Blaise Pascal misattribution that found its way to Camus. Started as a summary, ended up as a pseudo-quote, moved from Pascal to Camus. Bam. Knocked it up a notch with the Internet's spice weasel.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

I also can't find out who properly said it. Ah well.

Just as well. The statement doesn't even make sense.
What does it mean to live your life as though there is a God unless you are also somehow claiming to know who that God is and what it wants? All the various deities worshiped throughout mankind's history have wanted different things, rewarded different things, punished different things. There's no way to hedge your bets here.

 

[variant]

My guess is that no one famous ever said it. It's probably a Blaise Pascal misattribution that found its way to Camus. Started as a summary, ended up as a pseudo-quote, moved from Pascal to Camus. Bam. Knocked it up a notch with the Internet's spice weasel.

Now there's some pop culture reference I can track down.

 

[variant]

Just as well. The statement doesn't even make sense.
What does it mean to live your life as though there is a God unless you are also somehow claiming to know who that God is and what it wants? All the various deities worshiped throughout mankind's history have wanted different things, rewarded different things, punished different things. There's no way to hedge your bets here.

I still think it would work with the "we should act like life has meaning even if we know it probably doesn't" idea from existentialism.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I still think it would work with the "we should act like life has meaning even if we know it probably doesn't" idea from existentialism.

Agreed. The whole part where Camus supposedly said that he would rather not live as if there wasn't a God and then find out that there was is the only part that doesn't really sync up. Modern existentialists understand that their meaning is subjective and probably dies with them. Absurdists would take that a step further and say that you need to keep that in mind at all times to avoid replacing the absurd with the meaning you formulate. I just can't imagine Camus believing that he needed to pick the right fictive meaning to life on the chance that it was true, since he so strongly rejected the idea of subjective meanings having any objective truth to them.

Kierkegaard...I can maybe imagine Kierkegaard saying that. I can't find any proof that he did or any attribution to him, but if an existentialist said it, then Søren or one of the other Christian existentialists might fit the bill.

 

[variant]

"Faith is not about everything turning out OK. Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out. I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't than to live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is." Carol Bacon Kelso, Class of 1973

Favorite Wesleyan Memory

Carol Bacon Kelso, is either plagiarizing this or is the source of our quote.
Attributing it to Camus might get it some serious buzz.

Also:

James M. Convey

Claims the quote is his own:

Faith is not about everything turning out OK. Faith is about being OK, no matter how things turn out!

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live my life as if there is no God, and die to find there is!

James M. Convey Quotes - Current Affairs BLOG by James M. Convey