Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

[Tergle]

But I did not manipulate anything. I simply quoted what Christ said.

Here it is again:

"This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matt 13:49-50.

Do you disagree with this?

Notice how his position is countered by the reality that the writers of the New Testament cut out millions of financial contributors by their nasty hellish ideology.

Now look at this again:

Originally Posted by benglobal

Good for you. You can choose to believe that Christ said those words and have faith in that belief. I choose to believe that man is weak and ultimately ready to manipulate the word of truth and try to dominate through fear and control not teach through love and understanding. That was what I believe Jesus represented and his truth has been manipulated my mans desire to control and dominate.
​

benglobal's religion is the ad campaign of every beer company in the world.

It makes no sense that a power group would want to rule the world by rejecting so many people and making limits on behaviors.

 

[Doveaman]

Dove,

I know you've heard this before, but I want to ask again. People claim to be "lead" or "influenced" or "told" by the "Holy Spirit" all the time, yet, no two Christians are ever "told" the same thing. If the Holy Spirit was actually working through people, don't you think it would be consistent? How do you explain that other than, "Well, then if it doesn't agree with me, it's not the Holy Spirit talking!"?

In the non-essential matters of Christianity there should be liberty in the sense that we can still be saved even if we disagree on those matters, such as the age of the earth or the size of the flood or Christ' birth date, etc.

In the essential matters of Christianity there should be unity because, to my knowledge, Christ is the only way to salvation: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” - John 14:6. Those Christians who are saved would obviously have been inspired by God with the fundamentals of salvation and would therefore be united in those essential matters.

 

[BleedingHeart]

There are certain similarities between you two.

You're both very good at doublethink.

No way are they the same. Raze is, at the very least, polite and cordial. Tergle quite literally, does nothing but attack atheists with baseless accusation after baseless accusation.

 

[Skavau]

No way are they the same. Raze is, at the very least, polite and cordial. Tergle quite literally, does nothing but attack atheists with baseless accusation after baseless accusation.

They're not the same, of course.

That's one similarity I noticed.

 

[Tergle]

No way are they the same. Raze is, at the very least, polite and cordial. Tergle quite literally, does nothing but attack atheists with baseless accusation after baseless accusation.

Baseless?

You guys all walk, talk and group think so similar, it's impossible to see you as not homogenized. Notice that Skavua went the starving babies in africa routine with his starving children routine.

C'mon now, face the truth.

 

[Tergle]

Originally Posted by Doveaman

But I did not manipulate anything. I simply quoted what Christ said.

Here it is again:

"This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matt 13:49-50.

Do you disagree with this?
​

Notice how his position is countered by the reality that the writers of the New Testament cut out millions of financial contributors by their nasty hellish ideology.

Now look at this again:

Originally Posted by benglobal

Good for you. You can choose to believe that Christ said those words and have faith in that belief. I choose to believe that man is weak and ultimately ready to manipulate the word of truth and try to dominate through fear and control not teach through love and understanding. That was what I believe Jesus represented and his truth has been manipulated my mans desire to control and dominate.
​

​

benglobal's religion is the ad campaign of every beer company in the world.

It makes no sense that a power group would want to rule the world by rejecting so many people and making limits on behaviors.

 

[razeontherock]

Not quite. We have limited ability to choose, based upon divinely-established constraints. We are not omnipotent.

Divinely imposed restraints = whatever we're big and bad enough to do. The only other choice is following His righteousness via conscience and common sense, in which case His "restraints" are actually empowering.

 

[razeontherock]

I can handle weeping and teeth gnashing... bring it.

Oh, a tough guy huh? Have you met Vinny?

 

[Ampersand]

Vinny Cognitti is a punk dealer who only got ahead thanks to his uncle.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Oh, a tough guy huh? Have you met Vinny?

Ain't nothin' but a thang.

 

[razeontherock]

That it is both immoral and and indefensible. Do you have a point here exactly?

That your opinion of what is immoral and indefensible doesn't carry any weight, and it doesn't jibe with the world I live in.

You appear to thrive on denying any belief attributed to you whatsoever.

Why would you 'attribute' beliefs to me, or to anyone? Look, some real basic communication skills here: you try to paraphrase, and the person says "no, that's not it." Which means, "no, that's not it." You say, "gee, I guess that wasn't it." Once you can acknowledge that, then communication might be able to proceed; but I'm not about to argue.

 

[razeontherock]

You're both very good at doublethink.

No, you just don't grasp the implications of what's being said, largely due to assuming things that weren't said.

 

[Skavau]

That your opinion of what is immoral and indefensible doesn't carry any weight, and it doesn't jibe with the world I live in.

So if that what you believe make no bones about it. Just come out and say it. I mean, if you believe that with everyone who derives their morality from their experience and knowledge then you might as well not bother communicating with anyone at all.

In any case, my reasons for declaring eternal torture as immoral and indefensible are well documented on this thread and I don't just say it for the sake of hyperbole.

Why would you 'attribute' beliefs to me, or to anyone? Look, some real basic communication skills here: you try to paraphrase, and the person says "no, that's not it." Which means, "no, that's not it."

The only option when conversing with you is to attribute beliefs to you since you deny everything. You rejected my response to Zaac that atheists do not knowingly and deliberately reject Christianity and yet when I asked as to how far you seriously take that you committed a face heel turn and rejected any suggestion that you would believe it at all.

 

[razeontherock]

Not according to the theologian Paul of Tarsus:

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

- Romans 2

Many westerners reject God to His face. So the above more than likely doesn't reach out to anti-Christs. I'm just going with what the rest of the New Testament makes clear.

You know, I've said this every which way in this thread. Sometimes it just comes down to Scripture. Should we be taking bets on how they'll merdelize this?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

"Free from constraints" is just plain silly. We can each do whatever we're big and bad enough to do ...

The "free from constraints" part is necessary to the definition of free will. It's the "free" part for pete's sake. Man, you really could benefit from a couple of Philosophy courses.

Well... probably not...

 

[razeontherock]

It did, in a Tergle kind of way. What he meant to say is that at least you didn't accuse him of a being a sock puppet for that other guy who's name I'm to lazy to go back and remember.

You called? It's Ray. And no, we're too different to be twins, or evil twins. Thanks for the translation though, he lost me too

 

[razeontherock]

You can choose to believe that Christ said those words and have faith in that belief. I choose to believe that man is weak and ultimately ready to manipulate the word of truth and try to dominate through fear and control not teach through love and understanding. That was what I believe Jesus represented and his truth has been manipulated my mans desire to control and dominate.

Man's desire to control and dominate is not supreme, and can be avoided. (Which is the Good News, btw.)

 

[Ampersand]

Hello Ray, I'm Amp.

 

[razeontherock]

That is sure what the church was doing when the came up with the "Divine Right of Kings".

With a lower case c, yes the church did that.

 

[Tergle]

You called? It's Ray. And no, we're too different to be twins, or evil twins. Thanks for the translation though, he lost me too

Cognitive dissonance?