Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

[Zaac]

Which leaves two options; Either he didn't do enough, or he is incapable of saving everybody from a hell he created.

The two options are (1)you accept the finished work of Jesus Christ and the salvation that resulted and are saved or (2) you reject the finished work of Jesus Christ and the salvation that resulted and you spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

As much as folks like to think they are god, He is God ALONE. The two options are the two that He gives. NOT the two that help you reinforce the errant point you're trying to make.

 

[Zaac]

We are pattern seeking mammals and we usaully find what we're looking for.

And those who are seeking the Truth will find the Truth. Those seeking something else will find that and the eternal Lake of Fire.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

And those who are seeking the Truth will find the Truth. Those seeking something else will find that and the eternal Lake of Fire.

Pattern seeking mammals are also given to all sorts of beliefs, no matter how fantastical others may find them to be. Indeed, the truth is quite freeing.

 

[razeontherock]

If I were God, here's what my plan would be...

Let everyone who wants to go into Heaven.

The end.

And how long do you expect heaven would remain heaven? Bad plan, bad god. You're not worthy of worship.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I'll ask again. what do you believe the just punishment should be for eternal unforgiven sin?

As someone who doesn't believe in free will, any punishment at all is silly to me.

 

[razeontherock]

But God does not have free will... so why should we have it?

Boxes of hammers are cheaper by the dozen?

 

[selfinflikted]

And how long do you expect heaven would remain heaven? Bad plan, bad god. You're not worthy of worship.

Why would you not want to share heaven with everyone?

 

[razeontherock]

It makes no sense because your analogy is not fitting. Forgiveness is not something that the receiver "uses"... it is something that the giver applies.

You're still skipping over reconciliation (which is part of forgiveness as the Bible uses it.)

 

[ToddNotTodd]

And how long do you expect heaven would remain heaven? Bad plan, bad god.

Explain.

You're not worthy of worship.

I'm God. I don't need worship.

 

[razeontherock]

the main point of their position is called "salvation".

You are a sinner. You broke the law. You MUST BE PUNISHED!

Except...

And that was my point. Punishment is not necessary. It can be circumvented. And that makes it superfluous.

Simply wrong.

 

[Hespera]

God hasn't asked us for payment of anything. He came to serve us and save us. What would a just punishment be from a HOLY God for eternal unforgiven sin?



Yet Buddhists believe in Nirvana and being reborn again and again. Buddhists are essentially their own god. That puts them in the same category as atheists and agnostics who feel they are their own gods.

There are some things that can only be grasped by faith.



I'll ask again. what do you believe the just punishment should be for eternal unforgiven sin?

God hasn't asked us for payment of anything. He came to serve us and save us. What would a just punishment be from a HOLY God for eternal unforgiven sin?

Jesus paid for something for us that we were never expected to pay for?

He came to serve but what does he do?
He came to save us from himself?
A god that can do anything cant forgive?

Not meaning to be a pain but I just cant understand this at all.

That puts them in the same category as atheists and agnostics who feel they are their own gods.

Speaking as a one who was raised more or less Buddhist and as an atheist-agnostic i can tell you this is completely false. it is a weird and rather insulting falsehood at that.

 

[Freodin]

I must say this is a very interesting analogy.

Now let's say that you saved my house because you wanted to live in my house with me but I reject your desire to live in my house, and another meteor, which you could also destroy, is about to smash into my house, what do you think will happen to my house?

Please be honest.

This analogy was meant to show a very specific point: that you can profit from the actions of others without need for action on your own.

Your version does not expand on that point or try to counter it... you are trying to make a completely different point, that has nothing to do with the raze's orgininal remark nor my counterexample.

My point is the nature of forgiveness... not its motivation. It is completly irrelevant why I chose to save you the first time.

But you asked for a honest answer, even if the question relates to my motivation for saving you.

So my desire is to live with you in your house. You reject me. I still have that desire. I love you. I don't want to see you harmed. I want to see you happy.
So there is absolutly no reason for me not to destroy the meteor again. You and your house are saved.

Honest? Do you expect me to throw a hissy fit and cry "If I cannot have you, no one will!"?

I wonder what kind of relationships you had... and expect to have.

 

[razeontherock]

So Christianity is works based to you then?

Negatore

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

Therein lies the rub.

Christianity as a whole appears to be still trying to figure it all out; it’s a bit soon for them to wax authoritative on any theological point until they have come to a consensus with one another on these things.

This is why I think that if our salvation were to hinge upon Correct Belief (which I don't believe it does), we'd all be doomed.

Yes, imagine that. God HAS to be much wiser than that, no wonder his ways and thoughts surpass ours. Thank God for that!!

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Explain.



I'm God. I don't need worship.

Apparently he does, and sacrifice, and he's also given to human emotions like jealousy and anger.

 

[SithDoughnut]

And how long do you expect heaven would remain heaven? Bad plan, bad god. You're not worthy of worship.

If bad people go to heaven, it won't matter, because direct contact will render free will largely meaningless anyway. With no suffering and no pain, then bad people can't do bad things regardless.

Obviously there's the whole issue with heaven as a reward, but then it would be easy to just not tell anyone about it, ask them to be good, and then let them have total free will, with no carrot and stick to drag them along. Good people will be good people whether heaven is waiting or not.

 

[razeontherock]

Zaac, I've already answered this lie. No-one is 'rejecting' Christianity anymore than you are rejecting Islam. You simply don't believe that Islam is true like atheists do not believe that Christianity is true.

I certainly don't desire to go to hell and it is a lie that you would suggest that it is chosen by atheists.

You either accept or reject. You either enjoy G-d's Presence and seek it, or the opposite. Ultimately there is no middle ground. Currently there all all sorts of shades of grey, which confuses the issue(s).

 

[Freodin]

Boxes of hammers are cheaper by the dozen?

Depends on where you buy them.

Say, you are American, right?

You aren't a teacher per chance?

 

[razeontherock]

Are you capable of making your points without ad homs? Because these types of answers don't add to the discussion, and it leads me to believe you're running out of argument.

There's no ad hom there, and your constant false accusations point to you being guilty of what you accuse me of. Those arguments are solid, deal with it.

 

[razeontherock]

I must say this is a very interesting analogy.

Now let's say that you saved my house because you wanted to live in my house with me but I reject your desire to live in my house, and another meteor, which you could also destroy, is about to smash into my house, what do you think will happen to my house?

Please be honest.

This is the most fitting analogy I've seen in a while - pass the popcorn