Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

[Doveaman]

Consider the following analogy. A meteor is going to smash into your house just now. I'm going to destroy it before it can harm you. I acted, and you profit from it.

Now try to "reject" my gift. What do you think will happen to your house?

I must say this is a very interesting analogy.

Now let's say that you saved my house because you wanted to live in my house with me but I reject your desire to live in my house, and another meteor, which you could also destroy, is about to smash into my house, what do you think will happen to my house?

Please be honest.

 

[Zaac]

And you don't notice the point.... oh glorious irony!

Perhaps you will notice that I told you exactly that: that you don't believe I have been wronged and thus you don't ask for forgiveness. I told you that!

And guess what: this is precisely the (non)motivation Atheists have for asking God for forgiveness: they don't think God exists, and thus cannot be wronged.

Oh I noticed the point that you thought you were trying to make. But as I've said repeatedly, some of yall have got this man-centric viewpoint that you think supersedes God just because you say so or don't believe.

God is God alone. Atheists not believing doesn't change that. If He says you have to come to Him and seek forgiveness, that's the way it is. You don't have to believe it. But the end result will be an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

I imagine there will be a lot of folks in that lake who won't believe they are actually there after a lifetime of rejecting the truth just because they were big and bad enough too.

I see you still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you accept or not. It doesn't matter what I feel about you. (Though I honestly wonder how you could get the notion that I feel good about you having to accept it when I explicitly told you that you don't have to accept it.)
It is not about you and what you do with forgiveness. It is about being forgiven.

I see you still don't get it. You're talking about how YOU forgive. I'm talking about how Jesus Christ forgives.

And there are only two options: you are forgiven or you are not. And if you have to "do" something in order to be forgiven, it is not forgiveness at all. It is recompensation. A deal.

Biblical forgiveness has to be accepted. If you don't, you have chosen what's behind door #2---an eternity in the lake of fire.

 

[Doveaman]

If I were God, here's what my plan would be...

Let everyone who wants to go into Heaven.

The end.

You mean the end of heaven?

I can envision a heaven with the armies of Obama and Osama at war to control heaven and ends up destroying it.

 

[b&wpac7]

The New Testament says that those who accept Jesus and are baptized are saved and those who reject are damned. I reject the New Testament, so I don't see it as valid, but I wouldn't argue with a Christian who accepts the New Testament and says that is his religious belief.

 

[selfinflikted]

Oh I noticed the point that you thought you were trying to make. But as I've said repeatedly, some of yall have got this man-centric viewpoint that you think supersedes God just because you say so or don't believe.

God is God alone. Atheists not believing doesn't change that. If He says you have to come to Him and seek forgiveness, that's the way it is. You don't have to believe it. But the end result will be an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

I imagine there will be a lot of folks in that lake who won't believe they are actually there after a lifetime of rejecting the truth just because they were big and bad enough too.




I see you still don't get it. You're talking about how YOU forgive. I'm talking about how Jesus Christ forgives.



Biblical forgiveness has to be accepted. If you don't, you have chosen what's behind door #2---an eternity in the lake of fire.

Can I ask, do you feel that this is right? I mean, regardless of any "whatever god does is right because he's god" nonsense. I want to know if YOU think it's right.

 

[Zaac]

A lot of Christians actually 'want' this eternal burning chamber to be true, if it is not true then they have nothing to hold over the head of another. I think God is much more wiser than to leave with us something that is that real and that damaging to people in many ways right now, to use to hold over another's head. This is not the work or desire of a loving Father.

I mean we already have the Bible that is so abused and misused anyway. Then you everybody who has a hell they like to put everybody else in who does not agree with their version of God/The Bible, etc.

This sounds like Rob Bell type stuff.

Who cares what a lot of Christians want. This "eternal burning chamber " is true because GOD says it is.

It may not be YOUR IDEA of what a loving father would do. But God is Who HE says He is. He is not molded into something else just because we can't imaging Him doing something we don't think is right.

What do you think Jesus went to the Cross for?

 

[Rajni]

It makes no sense because your analogy is not fitting. Forgiveness is not something that the receiver "uses"... it is something that the giver applies.

Consider the following analogy. A meteor is going to smash into your house just now. I'm going to destroy it before it can harm you. I acted, and you profit from it.

Now try to "reject" my gift. What do you think will happen to your house?

Excellent analogy.

God’s forgiveness/eternal life is the same sort of gift our lives are – the sort that is granted us independent of our consent. Christians tend to put the gift of salvation in the same category as gifts one would get on Christmas-morning, which can be returned or refused, but salvation is not that sort of gift, imo.

 

[Rajni]

What happened on the Cross should be offensive to you. An innocent man was tortured and killed so that you and I could be forgiven of our sins and receive eternal life if we accepted the gift Jesus offers.

And yet the majority of those who believe this still think that – in spite of all Jesus supposedly went through to acquire man’s salvation – His efforts will result in only a small fraction of all mankind getting saved. All that work He put into it, being tortured and killed, and yet at the end of the day the success lies with the sinner's ability to make the Correct Choice. If human ego isn't behind that I don't know what is. I swear I had to have been brainwashed to believe such a thing back when I did.

 

[Rajni]

Yes, you can seek forgiveness. And you can give forgiveness without it being sought.

Very true. I have forgiven people who have wronged me without them even realizing I had done so. I don’t need their permission to forgive them. If I – a mere human – can manage that, I’m sure God can.

 

[Rajni]

But since all we have are people who are unable to present me a convincing argument for their particular flavor of Jesus, let alone any supernatural entity, an atheist I will be.

Therein lies the rub.

Christianity as a whole appears to be still trying to figure it all out; it’s a bit soon for them to wax authoritative on any theological point until they have come to a consensus with one another on these things.

This is why I think that if our salvation were to hinge upon Correct Belief (which I don't believe it does), we'd all be doomed.

 

[Rajni]

Now that is a lie. There is indeed a penalty for breaking God's law. He tells us in His word that For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:23

Who supposedly took on the wages of sin in man's place?

 

[Hespera]

This sounds like Rob Bell type stuff.

Who cares what a lot of Christians want. This "eternal burning chamber " is true because GOD says it is.

It may not be YOUR IDEA of what a loving father would do. But God is Who HE says He is. He is not molded into something else just because we can't imaging Him doing something we don't think is right.

What do you think Jesus went to the Cross for?

To someone who comes into contact with Christianity as an exotic and rather strange religion, there are some concepts that are really hard to work with.

Like, god sets the rules, and expects 'payment' for breaking them. Punishment vastly dispropotionate to the "crime".

But to help out, he splits himself into two parts, and then tortures one of them to death as a way to pay himself. Then he comes back to life.

I cant grasp the sense of it.

so if i cant grasp the sense and dont even believe it, i am to be punished far far beyond what was 'payment' for everyone elses sins?

is that how it is supposed to work?

 

[Zaac]

Can I ask, do you feel that this is right?

Hey self. Long time no talk. Hope all is going well with you.

But to answer your question. I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. My viewpoint is based upon the belief that God has given me His absolute truth and that truth trumps everything else. Absent the belief that He has given us His absolute truth, there is no reason to have faith in anything His word says.

Thus my viewpoint is based upon how God presents Himself. My notion of what is right is based upon what GOD says is right. And thus, yes, taking into account the FULL COUNSEL of the truth that He has given, it is ABSOLUTELY right.

I mean, regardless of any "whatever god does is right because he's god" nonsense. I want to know if YOU think it's right.

As I said, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. Asking me to form a response that is not based in Him is like asking a black person to talk about race relations in the United States but to ignore the fact that he is Black.

So my response will ALWAYS center around the One Whom I follow.

 

[selfinflikted]

Hey self. Long time no talk. Hope all is going well with you.

Hiya All is well, thanks for asking!

But to answer your question. I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. My viewpoint is based upon the belief that God has given me His absolute truth and that truth trumps everything else. Absent the belief that He has given us His absolute truth, there is no reason to have faith in anything His word says.

Thus my viewpoint is based upon how God presents Himself. My notion of what is right is based upon what GOD says is right. And thus, yes, taking into account the FULL COUNSEL of the truth that He has given, it is ABSOLUTELY right.



As I said, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. Asking me to form a response that is not based in Him is like asking a black person to talk about race relations in the United States but to ignore the fact that he is Black.

So my response will ALWAYS center around the One Whom I follow.

I understand.

If I were still a believer, I'm sure I'd give the same response.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

And He did what needed to be done to keep them from going to hell. The problem is THEY don't want to accept what He did.

Which leaves two options; Either he didn't do enough, or he is incapable of saving everybody from a hell he created.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You mean the end of heaven?

I can envision a heaven with the armies of Obama and Osama at war to control heaven and ends up destroying it.

Well... that's certainly weird...

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow any war in my heaven.

 

[Zaac]

And yet the majority of those who believe this still think that – in spite of all Jesus supposedly went through to acquire man’s salvation – His efforts will result in only a small fraction of all mankind getting saved. All that work He put into it, being tortured and killed, and yet at the end of the day the success lies with the sinner's ability to make the Correct Choice. If human ego isn't behind that I don't know what is. I swear I had to have been brainwashed to believe such a thing back when I did.

Those who follow Jesus should preach the word. And His word says 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:13-14

So yes, as is indicated by your response and the feelings of many on this baord and throughout the world, The word of God is absolutely true. Only a small fraction of mankind will be saved.

All you have to do is look at this board and see the avatars for atheism and agnosticism, and the utter hatred that people have for the way of Christ. It is VERY evident that His word is true and that there are many on the road that leads to destruction.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Those who follow Jesus should preach the word. And His word says 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:13-14

So yes, as is indicated by your response and the feelings of many on this baord and throughout the world, The word of God is absolutely true. Only a small fraction of mankind will be saved.

All you have to do is look at this board and see the avatars for atheism and agnosticism, and the utter hatred that people have for the way of Christ. It is VERY evident that His word is true and that there are many on the road that leads to destruction.

We are pattern seeking mammals and we usaully find what we're looking for.

 

[b&wpac7]

So yes, as is indicated by your response and the feelings of many on this baord and throughout the world, The word of God is absolutely true. Only a small fraction of mankind will be saved.

We believe that it was only a small fraction of Jews that have remained loyal to God and His covenant all these years as the prophets foretold. Interesting how those ideas are similar.

 

[Zaac]

To someone who comes into contact with Christianity as an exotic and rather strange religion, there are some concepts that are really hard to work with.

Like, god sets the rules, and expects 'payment' for breaking them. Punishment vastly dispropotionate to the "crime".

God hasn't asked us for payment of anything. He came to serve us and save us. What would a just punishment be from a HOLY God for eternal unforgiven sin?

But to help out, he splits himself into two parts, and then tortures one of them to death as a way to pay himself. Then he comes back to life.

I cant grasp the sense of it.

Yet Buddhists believe in Nirvana and being reborn again and again. Buddhists are essentially their own god. That puts them in the same category as atheists and agnostics who feel they are their own gods.

There are some things that can only be grasped by faith.

so if i cant grasp the sense and dont even believe it, i am to be punished far far beyond what was 'payment' for everyone elses sins?

is that how it is supposed to work?

I'll ask again. what do you believe the just punishment should be for eternal unforgiven sin?