Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

[Zaac]

You are in no state to begin sharing your concern for innocents.

I haven't shared any concern for any innocents because there are none. we're all guilty.

You adhere to a doctrine that promotes eternal torture for what we think.

I adhere to what God's word says.

This is even more perverted when one remembers where you live. In one sentence you will insist that human rights means nothing and that God may do as he pleases and in the next sentence reveal your compassion for the blood shed by a specific innocent.

Why don't you go and sit on God's throne? Why on Earth would man-centric human rights supersede what God says? Man was created. Man is NOT God. Everything centers around HIM, not us.

You live in a nation that abhors torture. You live in a nation that abhors any talk of 'thought-crime' and you live in a country that works for its people. You then use all the resources of that country to preach barbarity about how you think that it all could be done away with and disregarded if God deemed it appropriate. You are more in common with the Mullahs of Saudi Arabia than you do your homeland.

I'm sorry that God's truth is not as palatable as you would like for it to be. But it is what it is.

If you CHOOSE to reject Him and go to the lake of fire for all eternity, whose fault is it but your own?

I mean folks can throw tantrums and jump up and down and vehemently disagree about what they think it is just for God to do or not do. But in the end, God will do exactly as He says He will in His word.

And knowing what He says in His word, folks STILL choose to reject His way because their man-centric theology can't believe that He would let such a thing take place.

It's our choice. if you don't want to believe what He says, there's no reason to get upset with me. Just be willing to deal with the consequences because they are just as He says.

 

[Skavau]

I haven't shared any concern for any innocents because there are none. we're all guilty.

If someone is held as a political prisoner for what they think in nation, do you pass on your condolences?

Why don't you go and sit on God's throne? Why on Earth would man-centric human rights supersede what God says? Man was created. Man is NOT God. Everything centers around HIM, not us.

You reap the benefits of a free society and go on to promote divine totalitarianism.

If you CHOOSE to reject Him and go to the lake of fire for all eternity, whose fault is it but your own?

I haven't 'chosen' to reject God. Belief does not work that way. I am not convinced that God exists. I cannot be convinced that God exists until I see sufficient evidence and reason in favour of God's existence. In addition I further cannot be convinced of Christianity until I see evidence and reason in favour of the Bible being true (literal or otherwise). I cannot then be choosing the lake of fire anymore than I am choosing the hellfire in Islam.

I mean folks can throw tantrums and jump up and down and vehemently disagree about what they think it is just for God to do or not do. But in the end, God will do exactly as He says He will in His word.

I know that you think this. I know that morality means nothing to you. I know that the only thing you're concerned with is following God's orders regardless of what they contain. I happen though to have more regard for humanity than you do.

And knowing what He says in His word, folks STILL choose to reject His way because their man-centric theology can't believe that He would let such a thing take place.

Suppose that Pol Pot was elevated to Godhood. Would you worship him? Think before you answer please.

It's our choice. if you don't want to believe what He says, there's no reason to get upset with me. Just be willing to deal with the consequences because they are just as He says.

I am not upset with you. I am disgusted that you reap the benefits and utilities of a free nation only to preach its eventual destruction in favour of a cosmic superpower that will torture all those who don't worship him for eternity. I am disgusted with what you believe, not what God believes (for I don't believe in God).

 

[Zaac]

Strange indeed. It seems that there is just a single unforgivable crime: not asking for forgiveness.

Oh my gosh!!Dude you nailed it!!! There IS but one unforgiveable sin and that is rjecting Jesus Christ and His gift of forgiveness.

If you accept it, all other sin is forgiven.

 

[Gishin]

Oh my gosh!!Dude you nailed it!!! There IS but one unforgiveable sin and that is rjecting Jesus Christ and His gift of forgiveness.

If you accept it, all other sin is forgiven.

When Jesus shows me some proof then I'll probably stop rejecting it. Shouldn't be too hard. Angels used to show up all the time, and even Jesus understood his resurrection would be a little hard to swallow. Why is it all that happens nowadays is a bunch of different (but entirely human, with all the flaws that go with it) kooks all preaching 30 different things with the threat of damnation if you don't buy it.

But since all we have are people who are unable to present me a convincing argument for their particular flavor of Jesus, let alone any supernatural entity, an atheist I will be.

 

[Zaac]

Be back later. Got to go work out

 

[Freodin]

Oh my gosh!!Dude you nailed it!!! There IS but one unforgiveable sin and that is rjecting Jesus Christ and His gift of forgiveness.

If you accept it, all other sin is forgiven.

Still confusing your basic concepts, I see.

What is a "gift of forgiveness"?

A gift is something that is offered. If forgiveness is offered, that means that forgiveness is given. You don't have to ask for a gift.

You can reject a gift, in the sense that you don't use it. But forgiveness is not something that can be used... it resides solely on the one that forgives. You cannot reject forgiveness.

See... you called everyone - and that includes me - guilty and sinfull. I find that offensive. You do not... you think that it is true and right. But I don't: I am offended. Because you don't feel the same, you wouldn't think of asking for my forgiveness.
But don't worry: I forgive you. I understand where you are comming from and I forgive you. A free gift.

And now I ask you to try to reject my forgiveness.

...

You cannot. Nothing you can do can change that fact that I have forgiven you. There is no way to reject forgiveness.

So the sin is not to ask for forgiveness... not rejecting it. But that is a sin that is extremely easy to be cleansed.

If there is any god who thinks that I have offended him and wants me to ask for his forgiveness, I hearby do so. Please forgive me whatever you think I need forgiven.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

To add in another two cents.

I was just really thinking earlier how we live in a world so full of pain, suffering, and I mean all out torment in so many ways. To seriously believe that after all of this we go through here, ( which is truly 'hell') that our unseen creator who created us in his image, plans to torment literally in fires 'forever non-stop is really honestly the sickest thing ever to exist.

Not only does he plan to do this, but he plans to do this to those he gave a free-will to but did not make the 'right' decision with that free will. Is there truly a 'right' decision if you really have free-will?

To torment oneself with worrying about being tormented does not come from the mind of a Father who said he loved us first and created us ALL after his own image.

This idea of a place is satanic in itself, and even more satanic I believe is how much people talk about this place of torment over the Love of God. BTW, Eternal Torment is a pagan myth, history proves this to be true in more ways than one..so yes it is satanic.

Well, it seems kind of obvious not many people even believe in the Love of God anyway.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Sure He could have. All He would have had to do was take away that free will that man is so fond of and forced us to obey everything and to love Him.

And yet, this is exactly what I would do if I had the power as a father to prevent my children from being tortured in hell forever.

This is for you to work out, I see no evidence for a hell. Also, I get to be good, because it's the RIGHT thing to do, not becuase I'm in fear of not being forgiven or spending eternity in hell. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free!

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

There is something I heard George Carlin say that made me die laughing, I do believe in God ( very much so).. but I agree with the second half what he said.

(It actually made me laugh at first, but later it really made me feel sad because he was right, this is what Christians preach)

(This is paraphrased) He pretty much said that people believe if you do not obey this God then he is going to burn you forever and ever and ever, but he loves you.

WOW!

 

[CaliforniaSun]

There is something I heard George Carlin say that made me die laughing, I do believe in God ( very much so).. but I agree with the second half what he said.

(It actually made me laugh at first, but later it really made me feel sad because he was right, this is what Christians preach)

(This is paraphrased) He pretty much said that people believe if you do not obey this God then he is going to burn you forever and ever and ever, but he loves you.

WOW!

Yep, Carlin had a way of making you laugh and poignant at the same time. He was comedy genius.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

Yep, Carlin had a way of making you laugh and poignant at the same time. He was comedy genious.

Yes, he made a lot of great points, and I loved his views on especially politics. My favorite is definitely the one about God loving you so much, but burning you for eternity. Your signature made me think of him btw....

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Yes, he made a lot of great points, and I loved his views on especially politics. My favorite is definitely the one about God loving you so much, but burning you for eternity. Your signature made me think of him btw....

I had a HS english teacher who referenced Carlin a lot. Every so often I'll pull him up on youtube and have a few laughs, (after the kids are in bed of course ).

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

I had a HS english teacher who referenced Carlin a lot. Every so often I'll pull him up on youtube and have a few laughs, (after the kids are in bed of course ).

haha, He was definitely a very funny guy. I will watch him every so often on youtube as well.

 

[Doveaman]

The older I get, the idea of a redemptive human blood sacrifice becomes more repugnant to me. It literally is offensive to me. The entire idea that I am somehow a serf, subjected to the ownership of a god, who loves me enough to create me, but just enough to send me to eternal torture, unless of course I believe in his "son" who he kills as a blood sacrifice for my "sins," seems like pure, mythological fantasy. To each their own I guess.

The wisdom of your every word only confirms how reliable the foolishness of God's word is.

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe...For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom" - 1 Cor 1:18-25.

In other words, it is your wisdom that is repugnant.

 

[Doveaman]

What never made sense to me, is why all the superfluous rigmarole in the first place? Couldn't god have made things so all this fluff wasn't even necessary?

NO!

God only does what is absolutely necessary.

 

[Doveaman]

So, why doesn't he?

If He did we wouldn't be created in His image, would we?

 

[Zaac]

Zaac: "As there are penalties for beaking man's laws, there is a penalty for breaking God's law."

Skavau: "But I don't believe in God. I have no belief in said 'law'. How is it coherent for God to expect me to adhere and recognise his precepts when I don't even believe that he exists?"

This is another interesting point. In fact you are a little off here, Skavau: you can be punished under a law that you don't know or don't accept.

But Zaac is completely wrong here. The whole point of Christian theology is just the opposite: that there isn't a penalty for breaking God's law.[/

Now that is a lie. There is indeed a penalty for breaking God's law. He tells us in His word that For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:23

 

[Zaac]

Still confusing your basic concepts, I see.

What is a "gift of forgiveness"?

A gift is something that is offered. If forgiveness is offered, that means that forgiveness is given. You don't have to ask for a gift.

Umm you're still confusing your world view with the Biblical view.

Biblically God has offered you a gift. And the righteousness of the One presenting the gift is not imputed to you if you do not accept it. Gifts have to be received.

You can reject a gift, in the sense that you don't use it. But forgiveness is not something that can be used... it resides solely on the one that forgives. You cannot reject forgiveness.

Again, your worldview verses God's Biblical view. He offers the gift of salvation. Upon accepting that gift it is used to grant the one who accepts it eternal life. Biblical forgiveness from Jesus Christ is used by those who accept Him as Lord and savior. It doesn't sit there and not do anything.

See... you called everyone - and that includes me - guilty and sinfull. I find that offensive.

Get over it.

According to God's word, we're all sinners. You're part of ALL so that makes you guilty and sinful. Sin is offensive to God.

You do not... you think that it is true and right. But I don't: I am offended.

You said that already. And like I said, you're just gonna have to get over it.

YOU and every one of the 6.6 billion people on the earth are sinners. That's just a fact.

Because you don't feel the same, you wouldn't think of asking for my forgiveness.

If I wronged you, I would ask for your forgiveness. But I don't apologize for telling people what God's word says. HE says you are a sinner. Your issue is with HIM, not me. I'm just delivering the message.

But don't worry: I forgive you. I understand where you are comming from and I forgive you. A free gift.

Ummm, thank you for forgiving me for something to which I was not looking for forgiveness.

And now I ask you to try to reject my forgiveness.

I can reject your forgiveness just as you can reject God's forgiveness. In this case, there is nothing to accept because I haven't committed a wrong.

You were offended by God's word. That's just an indication that His word does EXACTLY what HE says it will. The Bible says 12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Cor. 7:9-10

You cannot. Nothing you can do can change that fact that I have forgiven you. There is no way to reject forgiveness.

Sure i can reject it. You feel good about yourself thinking I have to accept it. I don't especially since there has been no wrong.

So the sin is not to ask for forgiveness... not rejecting it. But that is a sin that is extremely easy to be cleansed.

No sin is cleansed except by Jesus Christ. And if you don't accept Him as Lord and Savior, your sin isn't forgiven.

If there is any god who thinks that I have offended him and wants me to ask for his forgiveness, I hearby do so. Please forgive me whatever you think I need forgiven.

Take it sincerely to the Cross and call on the name of Jesus. 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’[a] 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12

 

[Doveaman]

My answers to a similar question in a couple other threads can be found here and here.

This doesn't answer my question. I'm not so much focusing on what the word "eternal" or "aionios" mean. I am focusing primarily on what Christ meant when He said the "good" will rise to live and the "evil" will rise to be condemned. Those who rise to live will receive life and those who rise to be condemned will receive punishment. Life or Punishment. Those are the alternatives. How do you reconcile the words of Christ with your idea that everyone will rise to live and none condemned?

Also, in response to this: Mat 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

You said this: "The duration of aionios (the Greek word which the English words "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever" replace) is determined by the subject to which it refers."

The subjects to which "aionios" refer in the verse above is "punishment" and "life". Is the "life" temporary or eternal? If the life is eternal why would the punishment be any different since "aionios" is used to refer to both subjects?

 

[Zaac]

When Jesus shows me some proof then I'll probably stop rejecting it. Shouldn't be too hard. Angels used to show up all the time, and even Jesus understood his resurrection would be a little hard to swallow. Why is it all that happens nowadays is a bunch of different (but entirely human, with all the flaws that go with it) kooks all preaching 30 different things with the threat of damnation if you don't buy it.

The Bible says Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Matthew 12:38-39

You've been given the same sign that they were. You reject it.

But since all we have are people who are unable to present me a convincing argument for their particular flavor of Jesus, let alone any supernatural entity, an atheist I will be.

Then unfortunately you will spend eternity in hell unless something changes. God reveals the truth to those who are looking for the truth. I pray that you seek Jesus and His truth.