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Atheists, define 'God'

How is 'God' properly defined?

  • Definitions have no coherent commonality

  • Defined properly as 'fill in the blank'

  • Subjectively defined as 'fill in the blank', (suppositional)

  • Objectively defined as 'fill in the blank'. (conditional)


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sandwiches

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Again, why so defensive? Why does every post have to be a shot?

Stop being evasive.

Again, you're the one proposing the idea that X exists. We're telling we see no reason to believe in your X. Now, you're saying that WE are the ones who should define the X YOU are proposing? Sorry but you got this backward.

Do you believe we should define what YOU are telling us YOU believe in?
 
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Non sequitur

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Again, why so defensive? Why does every post have to be a shot?

I don't see anyone being defensive. If I had to guess, though, maybe because of the lack of quoting the person/people you are addressing?


Nobody is taking shots at a god or religion, that I've seen. They've taken "shots" at people who misrepresent atheists and/or their definitions they have been asked to give/create.
 
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gav1nzdad

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The problem is that no one can define God. And yes I know the OP was put out as an offering for someone to define Him. Surely, no one expects an atheist to define God. And surely no Christian should expect any answer they give to be sufficient "proof" to any atheist. As a christian myself, I can only give a feeble attempt to describe some of the attributes that I have discovered about God, but define Him? No. any attempt top define God would be in vain. His ways are so far above ours. We lack the language to do it. No, this does not mean that we are evading a definition, just that a definition does not do God justice. He is greater than any definition. A definition would only box Him in to something that is beneath Him. If anyone wants a definition of God? How about God Is.
 
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Davian

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The problem is that no one can define God.
I did. A character in a book.
And yes I know the OP was put out as an offering for someone to define Him. Surely, no one expects an atheist to define God.
And the OP did just that.
And surely no Christian should expect any answer they give to be sufficient "proof" to any atheist.
Then perhaps you should spend more time in the Physical Sciences forum.
As a christian myself, I can only give a feeble attempt to describe some of the attributes that I have discovered about God, but define Him? No.
If you can't define what you believe in, then convincing others of the validity of your beliefs will be problematic.
any attempt top define God would be in vain. His ways are so far above ours. We lack the language to do it. No, this does not mean that we are evading a definition, just that a definition does not do God justice. He is greater than any definition. A definition would only box Him in to something that is beneath Him. If anyone wants a definition of God? How about God Is.
I think where that definition fails is in its inability to distinguish "God" from "nonexistent."
 
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Non sequitur

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This is where communications break down. When you belittle soemthing I have devoted my life to serving.

This is me disconnecting the line.

So, why should it be his problem.

Is it never a possibility that it's your problem for devoting your life to something that is false?
 
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Dave Ellis

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This is where communications break down. When you belittle soemthing I have devoted my life to serving.

This is me disconnecting the line.


If that's all he is, then that's all he is. There's no reason to assume he is anything more than that.

Just because you chose to devote your life to something that doesn't exist doesn't mean it's any more likely to exist. I would recommend you stop serving that thing before you waste even more of your life.
 
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gav1nzdad

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So, why should it be his problem.

Is it never a possibility that it's your problem for devoting your life to something that is false?

Trying to have a conversation by insulting something I hold dear is his problem.

If I am devoting my life to something he or you believe to be false, then it is of no concern to you or him.
 
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Non sequitur

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Trying to have a conversation by insulting something I hold dear is his problem.

No, if you see that him finding "God" a character in a book, as insulting, then that appears to be your problem. Stop interpreting it as insulting then.

If I am devoting my life to something he or you believe to be false, then it is of no concern to you or him.

So, the kids that have died when their Christian Scientist parents didn't simply take them to a doctor or call 911... it should not be anyone's concern?

That sounds very immoral of you...
 
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Dave Ellis

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Trying to have a conversation by insulting something I hold dear is his problem.

If I am devoting my life to something he or you believe to be false, then it is of no concern to you or him.


We are not insulting anything. Insult is a personal response, and a personal responsibility.

If you find offense or insult in having people criticize your views, that's your business. But looking for sympathy after posting your views on a discussion forum and taking offense at the concept people don't agree with you is unrealistic.

The fact is, you hold a belief in the existence of something you can not demonstrate exists. That by definition is an unjustified position. You may be right, you may be wrong, but until you can demonstrate it, we are completely justified in not accepting your beliefs as true.

Stating we should give your position special consideration because you have devoted your life to this thing, is not going to work either. In our view, you did devote your life to a non-existent entity, and I am being sincere in offering advice to stop doing that. Instead, you would be better served by examining what is and what is not true, from a rational viewpoint.
 
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Skavau

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Again, why so defensive? Why does every post have to be a shot?
Okay, this must be the nth time I've seen you say this. You're the one being defensive and it shows each time you repeat this. People are replying to you civilly and with consideration of your claims so I'll just repeat my question:

Why would you expect an atheist to assume a definition for a claim (God) they do not believe in?
 
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Davian

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I did. A character in a book.
...

This is where communications break down. When you belittle soemthing I have devoted my life to serving.

This is me disconnecting the line.

What did you expect for a definition from a theological noncognitivist?
 
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gav1nzdad

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We are not insulting anything. Insult is a personal response, and a personal responsibility.

If you find offense or insult in having people criticize your views, that's your business. But looking for sympathy after posting your views on a discussion forum and taking offense at the concept people don't agree with you is unrealistic.

The fact is, you hold a belief in the existence of something you can not demonstrate exists. That by definition is an unjustified position. You may be right, you may be wrong, but until you can demonstrate it, we are completely justified in not accepting your beliefs as true.

Stating we should give your position special consideration because you have devoted your life to this thing, is not going to work either. In our view, you did devote your life to a non-existent entity, and I am being sincere in offering advice to stop doing that. Instead, you would be better served by examining what is and what is not true, from a rational viewpoint.

In case you missed the quote that was the reason for my post, your partner in atheism stated my God was a character in a book. This is an insult.

And I am not lloking for sympathy, nor am I asking for any special consideration.

I was merely stating that I would not carry on a conversation with any one who would insult me. If you observe my previous posts, I have in no way insulted anyone about their choice to not believe.

What I find most interesting about this post is that you state, I may be right and I may be wrong but I can not demonstrate that I am right.

You or any other athiest can not demonstrate that I am wrong, either. You just CHOOSE to believe there is no God. In that, you have more in common with me than you would probably like to admit. I have also made a choice, I CHOOSE to believe He does exist.
 
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gav1nzdad

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So, the kids that have died when their Christian Scientist parents didn't simply take them to a doctor or call 911... it should not be anyone's concern?

That sounds very immoral of you...

I am not a Christian Scientist parent that doesn't take his kids to the doctor or call 911.

When I say it should be of no concern to you or anyone else, I am referring to myself. I can only speak for myself.

And for the record, being a Christian does not equal being stupid, just as being an Atheist does not equal being stupid. Although, there are stupid people on both sides of the fence. And, I do not mean that an insult.:)
 
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Non sequitur

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I am not a Christian Scientist parent that doesn't take his kids to the doctor or call 911.

When I say it should be of no concern to you or anyone else, I am referring to myself. I can only speak for myself.

And for the record, being a Christian does not equal being stupid, just as being an Atheist does not equal being stupid. Although, there are stupid people on both sides of the fence. And, I do not mean that an insult.:)

Well, I don't know what else you believe. The Christian religion seems to allow all kinds of things to be "true" and "right".

"A character in a book" is not a personal attack. If you count all words and descriptions you hear as "insults", you'll find life quite unbearable.


It should be added that atheism isn't a "CHOICE". I don't choose to lack a belief in things that are un-evidenced, it's a default.

(None taken.)
 
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Dave Ellis

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In case you missed the quote that was the reason for my post, your partner in atheism stated my God was a character in a book. This is an insult.

And I am not lloking for sympathy, nor am I asking for any special consideration.

I was merely stating that I would not carry on a conversation with any one who would insult me. If you observe my previous posts, I have in no way insulted anyone about their choice to not believe.

It is not an insult.... the reason why it's not an insult, is because there's a distinct possibility that he is correct.

If God actually does not exist, then he is simply no more than a character in a book. If you find that insulting that's your problem, It's not an insult.

What I find most interesting about this post is that you state, I may be right and I may be wrong but I can not demonstrate that I am right.

You or any other athiest can not demonstrate that I am wrong, either. You just CHOOSE to believe there is no God. In that, you have more in common with me than you would probably like to admit. I have also made a choice, I CHOOSE to believe He does exist.

You're committing a logical fallacy here, as well as misrepresenting my position.

First off, when did I assert that I believe there is no god?

Secondly, We don't need to demonstrate your position is wrong in order to not accept it as true. You have made the positive claim that God exists, therefore you have a burden of proof to meet to demonstrate your claim is correct.

If you do not meet your burden of proof, we can not rationally accept what you're saying. It doesn't mean we are asserting you are wrong, it means we are unconvinced you are right.

Lastly, beliefs are not choices. You can't choose to believe anything, you believe it, or you don't. You an claim to believe anything, but the act of actually believing it is not within your control.
 
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Dave Ellis

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And for the record, being a Christian does not equal being stupid, just as being an Atheist does not equal being stupid. Although, there are stupid people on both sides of the fence. And, I do not mean that an insult.:)


We are in complete agreement here :)
 
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gav1nzdad

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Well, I don't know what else you believe. The Christian religion seems to allow all kinds of things to be "true" and "right".

"A character in a book" is not a personal attack. If you count all words and descriptions you hear as "insults", you'll find life quite unbearable.


It should be added that atheism isn't a "CHOICE". I don't choose to lack a belief in things that are un-evidenced, it's a default.

(None taken.)

I believe that God created the heavens and earth.
I believe that God exists as a trinity, God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit.
I believe that Jesus Christ (the son) was born of a virgin.
I believe that Jesus Christ was crucified.
I beleive that Jesus Christ was fully man and fully God.
I believe that Jesus Christ arose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
I beleive that He has forgiven me my sins through the blood of Jesus Christ.
I believe He continues to forgive as I as for forgiveness in my daily life.
I believe that when I die, my spirit will be with Him in heaven.
I live my life just like you do. When I need a doctor, I see one. I watch tv, I listen to the radio, I read books (yes, even books that are not the Bible) granted I am careful about what I watch and listen to and read.
I work, and if it is required, I even work on Sunday.
I eat the same foods and probably shop at some of the some stores.

These are the things I believe. There are more less important things, but this is the core of it. I am asking that you or anyone else, not pick this apart, because I am not looking for a debate on it. You stated that you didn't know what I believed, so I decided to tell you.

Are there other folks in the world that call themselves christians that believe differently than this? More than likely so.
 
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