At what point does associating with sinners become wrong?

[Sammy-San]

Some Christian pastors say, not just with regards to marriage, but also with friendships and the kind of people you associate with, to not hang out with sinners-and to be yoked with Christians.

Two questions I have.

Jesus didnt avoid even sinners caught up in sinful lifestyles. I dont think Christians should shun people, but at what point does associating yourself with a person who practices sin become unequally yoked"?

At what point does having a non christian friend cross the line into being unequally yoked?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

as soon as Yhvh says no, then no.

you do know, don't you, that it is written DO NOT EVEN GREET AND NOT TO EVEN EAT with sinners who don't repent IF they call themselves "believers" --- if they continue on in divorce, greed, gambling, drinking, thievery, immodesty, immorality, idolatry, witchcraft, and so on.

it is written "BAD COMPANY corrupts .... " so, if someone disobeys Yhvh's Word,
and keeps social/casual company with BAD company.... they , yep, get corrupt...

 

[Sammy-San]

as soon as Yhvh says no, then no.

you do know, don't you, that it is written DO NOT EVEN GREET AND NOT TO EVEN EAT with sinners who don't repent IF they call themselves "believers" --- if they continue on in divorce, greed, gambling, drinking, thievery, immodesty, immorality, idolatry, witchcraft, and so on.

it is written "BAD COMPANY corrupts .... " so, if someone disobeys Yhvh's Word,
and keeps social/casual company with BAD company.... they , yep, get corrupt...

What about people who arent Christians, but dont live lifestyles of sin?

 

[Juelrei]

Some Christian pastors say, not just with regards to marriage, but also with friendships and the kind of people you associate with, to not hang out with sinners-and to be yoked with Christians.

Two questions I have.

Jesus didnt avoid even sinners caught up in sinful lifestyles. I dont think Christians should shun people, but at what point does associating yourself with a person who practices sin become unequally yoked"?

At what point does having a non christian friend cross the line into being unequally yoked?

According to Mat.11:28-30, we are to be yoked up to Jesus.

The picture here is of an immature, untrained animal yoked up with a mature, trained animal. The larger animal carries the greatest measure of the yoke, while the younger, smaller animal has the lighter load.

A yoke in that sense is a training tool, a teaching, a guidance. Jesus is saying, I will take the heaviness of the yoke, you are burdened with what is light, that you've got things easy.

When one is unequally yoked with an unbeliever, reckless, undisciplined, impulsive, ungodly, in darkness, unrighteous, prone to sin...

Then the (usually) weak believer will end up getting exposed to all those things that they've been redeemed from, but so easily dragged right back into them.

Jesus, on the other hand, is the highest example of Spiritual Maturity. Therefore He could and was able to be among the sinners to minister life to them without getting anywise influenced by their sinfulness.

If you notice yourself slipping back into the old ways according to the former days of being a sinner, then by all means, spend as little time as possible with unbelievers. It's not good for your own spiritual growth to be around them for too long. Pray for them, yes. Stay with them, no.

And, because your pastor spoke of marriage... Stay in the Bible alot, and Pray alot if you find yourself married to a spouse going through the dreaded backslidden condition.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What about people who arent Christians, but dont live lifestyles of sin?

Joseph in egypt was faithful to Yhvh.

obviously, the egyptians were not Christians.

Daniel , a great man of faith in Scripture, was surrounded by very bad people.

Paul, an emissary of Yahushua, taught by Him by revelation and in line with Torah more than anyone you've even ever met,
wrote Yhvh's Word that "I do not mean that we cannot associate with people of the world, for then we would have to be isolated far away from everyone; no. But from believers who continue to sin and refuse to repent, from those stay away and do not even say 'hello' to them, no, do not greet them nor have a meal with them - so that perhaps they will be ashamed of their grievous behavior (sin) and turn back to Yhvh the Creator in Yahushua's Grace(if He permits), and thus be restored .... otherwise the whole assembly is polluted and foul with sin.

This is all very clearly written out in english bibles, (for english readers),
and is not softened or whitewashed
like many churches may be
to just 'feel good' or 'not embarrass anyone' though plummeting to judgment in their sinfulness.

we all needs be associate with worldly people, and also at the same time "keep one unstained" as it is written. (which is not possible if disobeying Yhvh's Word to stay away from 'believers' who willfully sin without repenting - willful disobedience is always foul and disruptive of the testimony of Yeshua and breaks more and more away from Him)

 

[RDKirk]

Some Christian pastors say, not just with regards to marriage, but also with friendships and the kind of people you associate with, to not hang out with sinners-and to be yoked with Christians.

Two questions I have.

Jesus didnt avoid even sinners caught up in sinful lifestyles. I dont think Christians should shun people, but at what point does associating yourself with a person who practices sin become unequally yoked"?

At what point does having a non christian friend cross the line into being unequally yoked?

yeshuaslavejeff pointed out 1 Corinthians 5 which itself points out an understanding of what "associate" means in this context.

First, what should be the relationship of Christians with Christians?

All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts -- Acts 2

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus.

And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. -- Acts 4

This is what the relationship should be between Christians. This is an extremely intimate relationship in which everybody knows everybody else's "business."

Christians today don't know the limits of association with unbelievers because we don't associate with proper closeness with each other. If we were like the congregation in Jerusalem, we'd see difference.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Superhero Sam. We are all sinners, and we live in an imperfect world.
To be a Christian is to follow Christ and change gradually from being selfish and unloving, to become as God wants us to be. How does God wants us to be? Jesus gave us two Commandments in: Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with
all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
In verse 40; Jesus tells us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God wants our love, freely given and No tags attached.
I do not quite understand what you mean by associating, and if we just ignore
all Non-Christians, how will they know that God wants their love and compassion being shared with all?
The Bible wants us to " Repent and to be Born Again," perhaps we should show
Non-Christians that God wants our Love and Compassion be shared with all,
without being unloving and uncaring, and show the world at large that we are
followers of Jesus, and always do our best to behave as Christians should.
I say this with love, Sam. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Gunny]

In my humble opinion no evangelism (what the body of Christ is commanded to do-go and preach the gospel) can take place unless we are in the company of the unredeemed (sinners, backslidden and/or lost).

Serving the Lord as a chaplain to individuals that are incarcerated I'm given the honor and privilege (entrusted by the Lord and chaplaincy spiritual authority) to share the gospel of reconciliation and counsel those that are created in God's image and likeness (though they like all of us went astray).

May we be about the Father's business, in Jesus's name.

 

[Sammy-San]

yeshuaslavejeff pointed out 1 Corinthians 5 which itself points out an understanding of what "associate" means in this context.

First, what should be the relationship of Christians with Christians?

All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts -- Acts 2

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus.

And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. -- Acts 4

This is what the relationship should be between Christians. This is an extremely intimate relationship in which everybody knows everybody else's "business."

Christians today don't know the limits of association with unbelievers because we don't associate with proper closeness with each other. If we were like the congregation in Jerusalem, we'd see difference.

What do you think the limits of association with unbelievers should be?

 

[BryanW92]

What do you think the limits of association with unbelievers should be?

I'm in the process of writing a paper for school on that very topic right now. The question there is "Should a Christian start a corporation with unbelievers? Should a Christian even buy stock in a company owned by unbelievers?"

 

[Sammy-San]

I'm in the process of writing a paper for school on that very topic right now. The question there is "Should a Christian start a corporation with unbelievers? Should a Christian even buy stock in a company owned by unbelievers?"

I'd say this is not a black or white issue of what is a sin. It's more of a gray area that conscience should influence. Agree?

 

[BryanW92]

I'd say this is not a black or white issue of what is a sin. It's more of a gray area that conscience should influence. Agree?

Not really. I'm leaning towards saying that it is prohibited by scripture, yet almost any Christian will do so out of pragmatism (excluding that very small number of "perfect" Christians). But I'm not ready to commit to that yet. I'm still doing my research.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'd say this is not a black or white issue of what is a sin. It's more of a gray area that conscience should influence. Agree?

I'm in the process of writing a paper for school on that very topic right now. The question there is "Should a Christian start a corporation with unbelievers? Should a Christian even buy stock in a company owned by unbelievers?"

What do you think the limits of association with unbelievers should be?

Jesus ate with (a: perfect people b:healthy people c:other).

Jesus said people should do (a:what their own heart says b:what Torah says c:what ABBA YHVH says d:what their disobedient religious leaders (who don't obey themselves) say )

Jesus said, I send you out (a:to hide b: to be a light, hidden from others c:to be afraid of the enemy d:to pat each other on the back congratulating one another on successfully being blessed by someone e:LIKE sheep into an area abounding with wolves ... ... ...
f: to heal the sick constantly, throw out demons, tell others about the kingdom of Yhvh)

Jesus said, in the world (a: you will have money and wealth... ... .. b: other)(get the idea? - the world says money and wealth.... Jesus says other...... .... ....

sinners are dying daily, without help and without hope in the world....
even in the 'churches' because they 'go' and no one willing to talk with them... ... yet the leaders, Jesus said, are willing to collect outrageous funds to travel across oceans and deserts to make ONE convert...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What about people who arent Christians, but dont live lifestyles of sin?

their life is sin. everyone, everyone is born dead in trespasses and sin, yes, even from the womb, as written in Bible.



everyone, entirely. according to Jesus' Word.

yet, even there, may be an 'exception', as Word says. "those outside", Yhvh judges; those inside we (ekklesia) judge (or are supposed to judge).
(can someone find the three definitions of "judge" posted elsewhere?
we don't supposed to "judge" with the condemnatory type "judge", but with the other one or two types; a whole big humongous diff)

 

[RDKirk]

What do you think the limits of association with unbelievers should be?

I'm in the process of writing a paper for school on that very topic right now. The question there is "Should a Christian start a corporation with unbelievers? Should a Christian even buy stock in a company owned by unbelievers?"

With Acts 2 and Acts 4 are examples of Christian-to-Christian association. They show people "of one mind" who "held everything in common."

Having dinner with an unbeliever is not "being of one mind" or "holding everything in common."

Even being a shareholder in a corporation with an unbeliever is not "being of one mind" or "holding everything in common."

This is especially true when such associations are useful to one's witness of Christ to unbelievers.

"Everything is permissible to me, but not everything is profitable. Everything is permissible to me, but not everything is edifying." -- 1 Corinthians 10.

The wrong question is "Is it a sin?" That's the mistake of the one-talent steward, who was so concerned with avoiding the wrong thing that he failed to do the thing that profited his master. That's an appeal to a Law, which can never lead to life.

The correct question is always "Is it profitable to Christ? Is it edifying to the Body of Christ?"

 

[BryanW92]

With Acts 2 and Acts 4 are examples of Christian-to-Christian association. They show people "of one mind" who "held everything in common."

Having dinner with an unbeliever is not "being of one mind" or "holding everything in common."

Even being a shareholder in a corporation with an unbeliever is not "being of one mind" or "holding everything in common."

This is especially true when such associations are useful to one's witness of Christ to unbelievers.

"Everything is permissible to me, but not everything is profitable. Everything is permissible to me, but not everything is edifying." -- 1 Corinthians 10.

The wrong question is "Is it a sin?" That's the mistake of the one-talent steward, who was so concerned with avoiding the wrong thing that he failed to do the thing that profited his master. That's an appeal to a Law, which can never lead to life.

The correct question is always "Is it profitable to Christ? Is it edifying to the Body of Christ?"

I'm working in the 2 Cor 6 context. But my thesis is that it is permissible and does not threaten salvation, but it may lead to blessings being withdrawn in this life.

 

[Joel O]

I think as Christains we need to be winning souls for Christ, and you can't do that without interaction with non-Christians. So we know we need to be interacting with non-Christians. So, to what degree?
I have close friends and I have acquaintances. My close friends are Christians. Non-Christians fall into the acquaintance category. I guess another way to say that is I am friends with some people, and I try (as much as possible) to be friendly with everyone.
If a non-Christian as me to go to a ball game with them, I might go. I will try to live out the life of Christ before them, at least as much as I am able to do that. So where is the line drawn? If their influence on me is greater than my influence on them, then they are pulling me down into the sinful life. Time to back away.
I think we are doing a "balancing act" when dealing with the world. It takes work, and you have to be paying attention to how things are going. At some points you may have to tell the other person, "Sorry, I can not be doing that. I am a Christian."
If they reject you after that, then you have your answer as to ending the relationship.
Superhero Sam, you have ask a very good question. All Christians need to take this subject seriously.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm working in the 2 Cor 6 context. But my thesis is that it is permissible and does not threaten salvation, but it may lead to blessings being withdrawn in this life.

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? -- 2 Corinthians 6

What do those words mean? What is it to be "yoked together" or "in common" or "fellowship" or "harmony?"

Acts 2 and Acts 4 define what those words mean.

Christians--particularly in countries where "Christian" is the default--get confused on this because few of us have the kind of yoking, fellowship, harmony, and commonality that we are supposed to have. We don't have the connection we are supposed to have with those in the Body, so we don't know how to relate to those outside the Body.

But think for a moment of your own body and its members. Your hand relates closely to the rest of your body and compare it to the relationship of someone else's hand with your body. You can shake hands with another person--touching his hand--but that touch is nothing close to the connection of you own hand to your own body.

Your own hand shares nutrients, shares feelings, shares purpose with the rest of your body. Even when you are holding someone else's hand, that other hand does not have that kind of connection with your body. That's the difference.

 

[abysmul]

At what point does associating with sinners become wrong?

Christians sin.

 

[BryanW92]

Christians sin.

Best answer for the OP!!!