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Featured At What Point Do You Think You Are Truly Saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ChristServant, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    None of these. The Greek word for "called" mean an invitation.

    Salvation is by faith in Christ. Or, as Paul answered the jailer, "believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved".

    Actually, quite a bit. And the wording is very clear and straightforward.

    Nope. There are no verses that plainly state that idea. And since there is quite a bit of verses that plainly indicate eternal security, there can be NO verses that would even "suggest" otherwise.

    Fair enough.
     
  2. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    IMMEDIATELY when you're Convicted of your SIN, and of judgement by the Holy Spirit, and respond by REPENTING Of your SIN, surrendering, and calling out in the faith HE gives you to be covered by the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross to cleanse you, and make you perfect in God's sight. That's when everything changes, you're Born again, and indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

    My PERSONAL working hypothesis is that OSAS is not true, and that (According to Hebrews 6:4) terminal backsliding is possible.
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If so, you cannot have faith God saved you. And we are saved by having faith God saved us.
     
  4. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Correct. There is a sense in which, from our small understanding of time, we can say that in God's mind, we, by his mere choosing us, are saved from the very beginning. It is surely that secure of a thing. (I like to even think timeless God spoke and the creature, the Bride of Christ, the Church, the Dwelling Place of God, was instantly complete). And, somewhat in the same sense, it can be said that we were saved when Christ died.

    If we prefer to deal with the matter from within our sense of time, though, I can only think we are saved at the moment of regeneration, when the Holy Spirit takes up residence in us, completely transforming our hearts. But even then, I hate to use the term, "moment", as if it implies a point in time, rather than the means of regeneration.

    Why we insist on anchoring ourselves to a time-dependent handle to refer to for reference sake, I can only guess. Perhaps it is our desire to distance ourselves from this all-too-intimate God we want to love by OUR choice, OUR decision being more important than his. I have even heard of one man saying, as though the poetic feel of it made it true, that "There is no more sovereign thing God can do, than to give up some of his sovereignty." --a self-contradictory statement in itself.
     
  5. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    That's what Eph 2:8,9 says, and also what my PERSONAL experience was 57 years ago when I was Born AGain of the Holy Spirit. I still am. "Conviction of SIN" is the beginning of Saving Faith (i.e. God's WORD to you ROm 10:17).
     
  6. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    We have been saved, we are saved, and we are being saved.

    We don't lose salvation inasmuch as we always have the choice to reject it.

    If we're not saved, it's because we will not be saved.
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God gives saved people a heart that cannot reject him.
    “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

    We are saved by having faith that God saved us. If you think you can be lost, you cannot have faith that God saved you.
     
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  8. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    That’s debatable. If what they wrote is accurate according to God’s word then they are inspired. Everything good comes from God.

    You never answered my question why can’t you trust the church to interpret the scriptures?
     
  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Still doing that dodging thing I see.

    22180876-E474-4A19-9D42-FD60DFB5C9EC.gif
     
  10. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    You are saved when you hear the words “your sins have been forgiven” and you accept it. And saved means, you are saved from the judgment that would come because of sin. And after forgiveness, it would be good to reject sin, because forgiveness is not useful, if you go back to sin.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:23

    "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."
    John 8:11

    … so that nothing worse happens to you.
    John 5:14
     
  11. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Scripture is the Authority not any church building/denomination.
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    That didn’t answer the question. Why can’t you trust the church?
     
  13. Union With Christ

    Union With Christ Active Member

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    Reconciled yes; saved from death and hell no. That doesn’t happen until the resurrection. Scripture tells us to work out our salvation. We are called to take up our crosses daily. Again, Jesus said that he who endures to the end shall be saved.
     
  14. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Then you must be a universalist, since if God created humanity with no free choice to accept or reject him, then all must be saved. (John 3:16-17)
     
  15. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not sure where you got this called, chosen, faithful. Sounds a bit like Romans 8:30.

    For me I was convicted of sin, and I turned to God for forgiveness and was saved.

    1. Called? Convicted!
    2. Repentance, giving your heart to God
    3. Chosen? Saved! Born again by the Holy Spirit
    4. Faithful? Walking with Christ til the end

    I have Christian friends who never had that experiense of "instant salvation". They seem to just be trusting on Jesus for forgiveness/salvation. I sure hope they are saved. I'm not the one to know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  16. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    define church
     
  17. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

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    This can be many fold. Humans basically don't have the full ability to measure one's faith, including one's own faith. The judgment is done by God and Jesus. You thus have 2 choices, to have your faith evaluated or give up evaluating your own faith.

    Romans 10:9
    That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    This sets the baseline for a person to be saved. If by Jesus Christ's judgment that you are above this baseline, then you are saved. If God's judgment says that you are below standard, you are rejected.

    Here's how one is rejected,

    Matthew 7:22-23
    Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    This says that you need to keep doing a fact-checking to evaluate your own faith. As put by James, your works are a good indication of your faith. So you may have to keep that up for an evaluation done both by others (fellow brothers and sisters) and yourself.


    There are three requirements or key indicators you can or must go through to secure your own salvation (i.e., to affirm yourself about your own salvation).

    First is Baptism. This is an open declaration that you are a follower of Jesus Christ. This is clearly said by the Bible as a command with Jesus Himself set an example. It also acts as an indication of obedience to God.

    Second is to be born again.

    John 3:3
    Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

    This must have happened if you are truly saved. You are a different person now in Christ, disregarding whether you notice it or not.
    If you are the prodigal son in the parable, this may be very noticable to yourself. If so then it serves as a good indicator to affirm your salvation. If this is not noticable, then it could be a problem. A lot of ex-Christians are born and raised in Christian families. They all once reckoned themselves as Christians. You need to be cautious if you are the older son in the prodigal parable.

    Third is the pursuing of holiness. The above in your OP are just part of this pursuing process.

    1 Peter 1:16
    for it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

    Hebrews 12:14
    Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

    Sometimes I suspect that this can be in two fold,
    - Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (in a stricter sense)
    - Pursuing holiness, without this pursuit no one will see the Lord (more like a set bottomline)

    Regardless, it is a pursuing process instead of a one time situation. Not everyone may see the end result and to live as a saint. If you can then it serves as another key indicator to affirm your own salvation.

    On the other hand, the danger of such a saint status is that, you need to know clearly who your opponent is who can well be Satan himself, he's a very tricky person that would endlessly try his best to exploit into your each and every single weakness to overturn you. More commonly he defeats you with your own self pride and sins you may not reckon. So be warned.

    Luke 22:31
    Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  18. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc We are saved purely by the work and grace of God. Supporter

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    You technically were saved when you are chosen and long before you were ever born. But you don't know about this salvation until you are called by God. When fruits of repentance and God's ultimate love and calling begin, When God changes your heart for you to be able to come to him, THAT'S when your salvation is solidified and you are made righteous once and for all.
     
  19. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Which is why you don’t understand John 15:6 because someone failing to remain in Christ would destroy this idea.
     
  20. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I would still say that as long as we are abiding in Christ our salvation remains. If we are reconciled we are currently saved. Just because we have been reconciled doesn’t mean we can’t be at enmity with God afterwards. If you punch me in the face then apologize I can forgive you but it doesn’t mean you can punch me in the face again and your still forgiven.
     
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