• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision - Poll Vote only here

CF's Vision?

  • Option 1

  • Option 2


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Spherical Time

Reality has a well known Liberal bias.
Apr 20, 2005
2,375
227
43
New York City
Visit site
✟26,273.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Hi members

This poll, started by drstevej, was PMed to me recently. I think that it does make a good point and I wanted it moved out of the Conservative Christians forum to the Announcement forum to gather input from other members as well.

The issue here is whether CF's name should be changed and its vision modified to reflect its current framework.

This site at the moment is at a cross-roads, and can go either way. It can either become:

1. A safe social community site with a heavy and strong Christian influence (with the vision being to offer a safe online community, and a secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians) - which will allow for a name change;

OR

2. Return to a more restricted Christians-only site with a heavy emphasis on uniting mainstream Christians only with a less emphasis on outreach, in which case we keep the name.

Bear in mind that options 1 and 2 are both valid - there is a place for either forums.

I think that at this moment members are frustrated because CF is halfway between options 1 and 2, so members are confused as we have a vision that belongs to option 2 but a setup that is more like option 1.

Therefore, I think we need to make a decision.

I'm going to leave this up to the community. I've extended the above poll to 3rd of August.

I will listen to the members here, and will defer to the final decision.

Please feel free to discuss this issue in this thread.
Obviously I'm coming late to this party, but I'd still like to throw in my non-Christian vote, although I have a feeling that it will be swallowed by the crushing mass of people reading and commenting on this thread.

I vote for neither option. This is Christian Forums, and it is and should remain a Christian website. I've never suggested anything different and so many people that are both Christians and non-Christians have never wanted anything for this site than for it to demonstrate the best qualities of Christianity.

However, from an outside perspective, uniting mainstream Christians in a Christians-only framework is not the same thing as uniting all Christians, which I think is a much more noble goal. The Christians that I've known for years have often times told me that you shouldn't compromise on your morals, and that's what this vote seems to be doing to me.

Christian Forums should be a safe and social community site based on Christianity, and not just based on mainstream Christianity. Every Christian and Christian denomination has both positive and negative qualities that they bring to the table. I can go around the table and point out the best qualities in everyone that I meet here, and they should all be allowed to bring their contributions to the table.

For obvious reasons I wouldn't like to see the non-Christian moderators thrown out on their ears. They may not be Christians, but they're people too, and they would like nothing better to contribute to a place where then have had enjoyment and found friends. That's part of Christianity too, and if you don't believe me, then you'll have to take the word of my favorite Bible passage instead of me: Mark 9:38-41

Here's the vision that I think would best serve CF: Focus on the ministry of members rather than on the ministry of staff. There are some amazing people that would like nothing better than to evangelize and witness here at CF but are not interested in the role of staff members. That's perfectly understandable. I've been involved in moderation for two years and I have to say that most people find it tedious and boring at best and painful and agonizing at worst. It isn't a job that lends itself to ministry (in any sense of the word).

The role of the moderator is to moderate; to enforce the rules. With a simple rule set that is basically static, that's easy and it can be accomplished quickly and easily.

Of course, even though I believe America is the best country, the people that founded it were much smarter than I am. They realized that every system has it's faults. It needs review by people that are disassociated from the process of writing the rules and enforcing the rules. Someone that is going to always be in a tough position because their job is going to entail a large gray area. Even less than the normal members, these people won't be able to preach or post without hurting someone at some time. I don't envy anyone in such a position.

Here's the practical application then: Most moderators should have limited powers. They should run their forums, but not have responsibilities in all forums because that seriously curtails their ability to be friendly and part of the community. A few people, perhaps ten or so very trusted moderators should have wide ranging powers to deal with emergencies.

The people that appoint those mods and super mods though, they should be removed from the process. They should be the judges, and they shouldn't be afraid to deal with problems among moderators like the normal moderators deal with problems among their forums. They should never moderate directly, but only should change things through talking and if necessary changing the makeup of the moderation team.

Where should this happen? Mostly out of sight. I hate to say it, but even small parades have staging areas. I know that CF has had some problems in the past, so here's my suggestion for dealing with the problem of hidden staff areas: How about elected teams of observers that can view the process but not interfere. If they say that everything is going well, great, but if they say something is going wrong the Administrators can take steps to fix the problem (and not by removing the observers, either). Otherwise, the behind the scenes area for moderation should be simple and geared toward enforcing the rules, and only enforcing the rules.

Now, I'm going to say something that I don't think that I've said in a long time (if ever before): I agree with drstevej that wiki rules aren't a solution to the problem of writing rules. Any process in which the least common denominator wields as much authority as Jesus is going to have problems. Does that mean that a specific set of rules should be adopted and never changed? No. It means that a group of people need to be found that aren't afraid to change thi
ngs that aren't working (or that aren't fair) and try to make things better for all users. Different groups need different things, but everyone should be treated fairly. That doesn't mean just everyone getting their say at once but some reasoned debate about it, which we haven't really seen yet.

Still, the general gist of the rules seems pretty clear to me. The first rule should be "Love God." Simple enough. That was Jesus's first rule, so it seems good enough for CF. How should it be enforced? Well, Jesus seemed to indicate that it should be handled person by person, which seems good enough for CF as well.

The second, accordingly, should be "Love and respect others." That means that people should be polite. Anyone who deliberately hurts someone else should be in violation of this rule, but it should allow for jokes and apologies. In all honesty, this should be a rule that any moderator that sees broken can enforce right away.

Three, four and five are "don't violate copyright, don't talk about the google ads publicly, and don't spam." Again, those are fairly simple.

Six should be "No Obscene, Vulgar, Racist, Sexually Explicit or Illegal Posts and Links." What makes something obscene? Well, that depends on what forum it's in. A discussion of racism in Ethics and Morality should not be treated the same as a support thread.

Seven should be "Places within CF are different. Please understand that this is a large site, and please be understanding of the area that you are posting in or restrictions that may be enforced in some areas."

And just to be contrary to numerology, eight should be "This is a discussion board. Don't come back if your banned, don't talk about moderation in-thread, and remember that there are people behind the screens."

The simpler than those rules are, the easier it is to enforce the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

Anyway, those are my suggestions in response to the vote. Have a good day.

ST
 
Upvote 0

Angel4Truth

Legend
Aug 27, 2003
27,701
4,634
Visit site
✟72,990.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Agnosticteen, many people are trying to work on a solution that doesnt kick anyone to the curb - now you can keep going like that, but if you want real tolerance you cannot kick the others to the curb whose needs dont match yours. This new thing doesnt serve my needs or many others and I am attempting to work at a solution.

I am all for people expressing their veiws and yes complaints too as long as their veiw includes an attempt to work at a solution as well instead of just blanket criticism with no alternative ideas expressed ever.
 
Upvote 0

rocklife

Senior Veteran
Apr 4, 2004
9,334
156
✟33,086.00
Faith
Christian
I like this forum being a place for christians to fellowship and learn from other christians all over the world. overemphasizing outreach and letting non-christians take over isn't the biblical message. we should outreach, but Jesus spent a lot of time with His disciples in edifying them more than the masses of those who were not committed, and this forum has been a great Christian fellowship. the Outreach has been fine, we christians also (many or some) do outreach in the real life too, not just internet, so we can share in different ways, it doesn't have to be totally internet outreach to non-christians. When I first joined this forum, and it still is in my experience so far, a great and unique christian experience, getting to fellowship with christians all over the world and sharing and edifying each other and also non-christians too, and it is very family friendly with the CF Pets and Arcade. I hope it continues to remain a Christian fellowship. that's my 2 cents
 
Upvote 0
A

ALiberalTeen

Guest
Agnosticteen, many people are trying to work on a solution that doesnt kick anyone to the curb - now you can keep going like that, but if you want real tolerance you cannot kick the others to the curb whose needs dont match yours. This new thing doesnt serve my needs or many others and I am attempting to work at a solution.

I am all for people expressing their veiws and yes complaints too as long as their veiw includes an attempt to work at a solution as well instead of just blanket criticism with no alternative ideas expressed ever.
I'm just speaking up for option 1, but i'm all for a compromise
 
Upvote 0

scraparcs

aka Mayor McCheese
Mar 4, 2002
53,004
4,844
Massachusetts
✟99,078.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Well, I think taking the gay stuff out would alienate conservatives. Actually I'd like to hear some conservative views on that - I'm only too conservative to be liberal and too liberal to be conservative.
 
Upvote 0

onajourney87

Contributor
Oct 28, 2003
3,596
267
✟21,463.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Where's the "neither" option?

Wikified rules don't quite work (or maybe we are still in the heat of the chaos from the initial change and haven't ironed out some stuff).

But go back to what we were? Back to the days where:
- a moderator could call a gathering of non-Christians a cesspool in the staff forums (with over 50% of staff applauding it)?
- a staff member could loose all respectableness (might I add that one of the qualifications for an elder in 1 Timothy 3 is respectablity) on a non-CF forum yet it would be swept under the rug and because, "what happens off CF stays off CF; after all, it was in conversation with non-Christians" ?
- staff in general had a high view of orthodoxy but little care for orthopraxy?
- a system of rules (multiple pages long) whereby order was held paramount to caring for folks with legitimate issues seeking help? (chaos is not always a bad thing...)
- the group of moderators voting in whoever they liked, creating a demographic Erwin had a great struggle dealing with--sometimes going as far as to say he disliked the demographic the staff had become (my guess is the problems probably started with mods who were grandfathered in from forums which merged into CF)

When Erwin first announced the new CF changes, I said he found his balls. And he has.

Now maybe he just needs to get a carefully-choosen thinktank of some CF members to work through some of the issues that are being faced and craft the site's setup to deal with them appropriately.
 
Upvote 0

FriendsFellowship

Serving the Kingdom!
Mar 17, 2006
12,854
5,307
Southern California
Visit site
✟60,526.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where's the "neither" option?

Wikified rules don't quite work (or maybe we are still in the heat of the chaos from the initial change and haven't ironed out some stuff).

But go back to what we were? Back to the days where:
- a moderator could call a gathering of non-Christians a cesspool in the staff forums (with over 50% of staff applauding it)?
- a staff member could loose all respectableness (might I add that one of the qualifications for an elder in 1 Timothy 3 is respectablity) on a non-CF forum yet it would be swept under the rug and because, "what happens off CF stays off CF; after all, it was in conversation with non-Christians" ?
- staff in general had a high view of orthodoxy but little care for orthopraxy?
- a system of rules (multiple pages long) whereby order was held paramount to caring for folks with legitimate issues seeking help? (chaos is not always a bad thing...)
- the group of moderators voting in whoever they liked, creating a demographic Erwin had a great struggle dealing with--sometimes going as far as to say he disliked the demographic the staff had become (my guess is the problems probably started with mods who were grandfathered in from forums which merged into CF)

When Erwin first announced the new CF changes, I said he found his balls. And he has.

Now maybe he just needs to get a carefully-choosen thinktank of some CF members to work through some of the issues that are being faced and craft the site's setup to deal with them appropriately.

I said this earlier in the thread but I think I'll repeat it.

I don't think it was the old rules that caused a lot of the problems here at CF. I think it was the heavy handedness in which issues were dealt with.

The are other ways of addressing those problems without changing everything at CF. :)
 
Upvote 0

Axver

Dreaming on a railway track
Sep 4, 2003
2,904
180
38
Melbourne, Australia
Visit site
✟3,984.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
AU-Greens
Well, I was going to write out my thoughts in a long post, but this says pretty much everything I want to say and is worth quoting for truth:

The name should stay. But I voted option 1. I don't like your options at all.

There can be enough rules in place to keep Christians "safe" and enough wiggle room to allow for discussion of other beliefs as well. People come here primarily to discuss Christan themes, debate things, and talk to people who share their beliefs. Expanding the site to allow for things like non-Christian mods and more open communication does nothing to change that. Really, the only difference I see here, in the "new cf" are all the threads [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing about change....everywhere else is basically the same ol same ol. It may be hurting people's pride or stepping on a few toes to have a reorganization like this but most members don't seem concerned. Most don't write Wiki's or even vote in polls like this because it hasn't effected them or why they come here.


Bottom line is, if option two means this site will be run exactly how it was 2 months ago, complete with overly restrictive rules and mods who warn, issue infractions, cannabalize threads or delete them altogether, and ban anyone for acting in a way they decide is "unchristain"...well you can have it.

In short, I see no reason to either change this site's name or return to the bad old days.
 
Upvote 0
A

ALiberalTeen

Guest
How very interesting. I see some fine, upstanding Christian and his sock have both voted for Option 2. A very fine witness for our many baby Christians and non-Christians. I hope you're proud of yourself. It's good that God has cheaters like you to help Him out.
That's the Christian way, if you have an opportunity to cheat, do it...
 
Upvote 0

BelindaP

Senior Contributor
Sep 21, 2006
9,222
711
Indianapolis
✟28,388.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Please don't paint us all that way. Only those who think they are losing something would resort to cheating. It will be interesting when the IP checks are done and the socks and their owners are outed in the report threads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brimshack
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.