At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[ChristianCenturion]

Quite frankly this issue is sickening already. Erwin you made a hasty and unadvised decision. You have had second thoughts. I am glad for those second thoughts . Now lets get on with it.

This is dragging on too long and all it is doing is draining patience and no more. You have lots of information to filter through and it is time to get started . I and others recommended many things in all three threads on this matter.

Time to get it organized and packaged up. I do not mean to offend you but you need more honesty around you and if you had it maybe this mess would have never occurred in the first place. I am praying and you know that....


Sun

Pretty much a shared sentiment.

 

[MarcusHill]

Good luck on all of this brother it is time to get it moving.

Agreed! I can't think of anything that has been said on these threads in the past two or three days that is in any way new. The time for discussion is done, it's time for decisions.

 

[stranger]

Originally Posted by Lisa0315
If that is true, why were there so many posts that implied or stated outright that atheists were going to take over this site? There were so many dire predictions which did not happen, and every single one of them COULD have happened under old CF. If that is not fear, what was the cause?
Lisa

In fact the only takeover possible here was that the right-wing extremist conservatives would control the structure of the site and exclude atheists and non-conforming [to THEIR views] christians and indeed all other religious views in their outright xenophobia ...

And that xenophobia is indeed driven by inner fears ,because they know as well as anyon, in their gearts , that it is unloving to exclude anyone from Jesus' message just because they feel uncomfortable in their own faith and cannot justify their own beliefs outside a group carefully chosen to agree with them [enclave, clique, sect, denomination]
fear then is the root cause, and love is the only remedy ... a christian site NEEDS to be ONLY run on love for all men, because Jesus said that is how to BE if following him... Love is very different from BOTH the options proposed, so the poll is flawed deeply and should eb abandonned ...

As it is it has simply split the vote and has given no significant answer except that the poll was desperately poorly conceived and doesn't offer the option that almost everyone wants , for the name to stay the same and for outreach to cntinue ... the whole idea of chrsitaians without their main focus being outreach is self-contradicting, Jesus commended outreach in the great commission to the apostles , paul lived his whole ministry in outreach to unbelievers ...

 

[stranger]

Shame it's been polling between 10-15 percent ahead for a while now then, ain't it? If you take socks out of it, I think we'll find its quite a bit higher.

If you examine the time distribution of the vote, you will see that the sock puppet multiplier was used on option 2 ...

the point about this is that a poll which Erwin wants to use to determine site policy should have had ALL options in it, not just two which few people wholly agree with , and winning any vote by cheating is hardly victory and bizarre behaviour by christians if they had any idea what faith is...

But the vote is fortunately split with no differenec being significant at the small number bothering to reply to this deeply flawed poll only less than a thousand out of the hundreds of thousands who use this site [many not members]

From te comments, very few want the site name changed , and very few want outreach reduced ... so the true option of the many isn't even allowed for in this scam of a poll ... fortunately no harm is done since the result is unusable ... one cannot accept either option and reject the views of the other half of the site...

All this is lost is the absurd upesetting of everyone by a desperately ill-though-out poll conduvted desperately unfairly with people cheating , even closing off discussions for spurious reasons ... it really has been a display of unlovingness and unfair attitudes by christians , it is a disgrace and a sham for which erwin is most at fault for not giving people a ful list of options on which to vote , and not imploring people to vaote fairly ...

 

[heymikey80]

I think that you missed the evry experienced Paul's' point ... only the NEWS is spraed by word of mouth of the apostles, the CONVERSION to FAITH is solely in God's hands :-

Note the denominational affiliation. I'm a monergist.

But even I'm persuaded by Paul's contradiction of your statement:

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" Rom 10:14-15
​

The fact is the conversion process is assisted by content, and content that we distribute. It's not necessary. It's just Crucial.

... then you can begin passing on this news taht almost all christians do not know ...

So basically you're saying most Christians don't have knowledge of the Good News.

That sort of destroys the point of a large outreach site.

 

[SunMessenger]

Much of what is being said here is constant repetition. What good is it already ? I think this is the deadline date anyway . Does anyone know ?

When is enough really enough? It is like a broken record in here . Sorry it may not be nice to read but it is the truth none the less...

Sun

 

[heymikey80]

In fact the only takeover possible here was that the right-wing extremist conservatives would control the structure of the site and exclude atheists and non-conforming [to THEIR views] christians and indeed all other religious views in their outright xenophobia ...

Right-wing extremism is trying to "uniting all Christians as one body"? You haven't met many right-wing extremists. They were never here!

If you examine the time distribution of the vote, you will see that the sock puppet multiplier was used on option 2 ...

Demonstrate your charge or stand down. The time distribution of the vote simply means that the announcement hit a nerve in certain forums.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Yes non christians are guests of those in the church to the body of Christ. Quote my whole post next time.

All of us are guests as we all sin and fall short of perfection.


Jesus wasn't an excluder and neither should we be.

 

[eldermike]

In fact the only takeover possible here was that the right-wing extremist conservatives would control the structure of the site and exclude atheists and non-conforming [to THEIR views] christians and indeed all other religious views in their outright xenophobia ...

And that xenophobia is indeed driven by inner fears ,because they know as well as anyon, in their gearts , that it is unloving to exclude anyone from Jesus' message just because they feel uncomfortable in their own faith and cannot justify their own beliefs outside a group carefully chosen to agree with them [enclave, clique, sect, denomination]
fear then is the root cause, and love is the only remedy ... a christian site NEEDS to be ONLY run on love for all men, because Jesus said that is how to BE if following him... Love is very different from BOTH the options proposed, so the poll is flawed deeply and should eb abandonned ...

As it is it has simply split the vote and has given no significant answer except that the poll was desperately poorly conceived and doesn't offer the option that almost everyone wants , for the name to stay the same and for outreach to cntinue ... the whole idea of chrsitaians without their main focus being outreach is self-contradicting, Jesus commended outreach in the great commission to the apostles , paul lived his whole ministry in outreach to unbelievers ...

There are no right wing extremists here, they in fact would not like the right leaning members I know on this forum.

But you used two examples in this post, Jesus and Paul.
In the great commission there is two parts, the second part is missed somethimes. Jesus said teach them to obey my commands. Paul siad it this way: teach no other than I have taught you.

There actually is no right and left in christianity, there is only a version of the truth that cuts everyone equally. Some will not be cut by it, that's where we split.

 

[heymikey80]

All of us are guests as we all sin and fall short of perfection.


Jesus wasn't an excluder and neither should we be.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'" Mt 7:21-23

"Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others." 2 Cor 5:11
​

 

[tulc]

There actually is no right and left in christianity, there is only a version of the truth that cuts everyone equally. Some will not be cut by it, that's where we split.

uhmm if everyone is cut equally who are the some?
tulc(just wondering)

 

[eldermike]

uhmm if everyone is cut equally who are the some?
tulc(just wondering)

OK,
Those that love God, love others, and have a heart to share Jesus are cut by God's word, they have been changed into something new, something that draws others. They can work within the many differences of style, denominations and even interpretations of scripture, as long as those things have not become an Idol.
Those that love complication, justification and gray, they are the factious killers of ministry. They have private agendas. That runs the gambit from worship of a version of scripture to worship of a denomination, worship of a sexual preference, to you name it. But they are not about God, others and the lost. They will only complicate, complicate and paint everything gray. They are single minded, narrow but claiming to be open minded. They will kill you with work, only meant to further their agenda.
We are warned to get them out of our leadership. Titus 3:10-11

 

[WalksWithChrist]

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'" Mt 7:21-23​

"Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others." 2 Cor 5:11​

Exactly!

 

[ThorninHiscrown]

OK,
Those that love God, love others, and have a heart to share Jesus are cut by God's word, they have been changed into something new, something that draws others. They can work within the many differences of style, denominations and even interpretations of scripture, as long as those things have not become an Idol.
Those that love complication, justification and gray, they are the factious killers of ministry. They have private agendas. That runs the gambit from worship of a version of scripture to worship of a denomination, worship of a sexual preference, to you name it. But they are not about God, others and the lost. They will only complicate, complicate and paint everything gray. They are single minded, narrow but claiming to be open minded. They will kill you with work, only meant to further their agenda.
We are warned to get them out of our leadership. Titus 3:10-11

Amen, it all comes down to motives. God judges the heart and that's where motives reside. That's were murders and all kinds of evil dwell. Then it festers in the mind and comes out the tongue, which is then set loose to do all the damage satan can spin from it.
Weeds your own backyards and the rubbish burned. Ya, like that's gonna happen.
How about just one good deed a day per person. It would change the world. ok, old fashioned, disposable people are much easier.

 

[ThorninHiscrown]

Negativity doesn't help when solutions are being sought but the mindset needs to change. Where do you look for answers, OT, no good, traditional doormat propaganda, I don't think so. Anything positive that is part of the process of everyday events is all that can happen with no end results as the goal (oh this is gonna happen) No it won't. Not if people are trying to control the outcome of the world. Just not gonna happen, universal soldiers.

 

[tulc]

OK,
Those that love God, love others, and have a heart to share Jesus are cut by God's word, they have been changed into something new, something that draws others. They can work within the many differences of style, denominations and even interpretations of scripture, as long as those things have not become an Idol.

Ok I think get this one. Their the 10% that do most of the good things the other 90% talk about doing but don't for fear they might have to be nice to someone they don't agree with?

Those that love complication, justification and gray, they are the factious killers of ministry. They have private agendas. That runs the gambit from worship of a version of scripture to worship of a denomination, worship of a sexual preference, to you name it. But they are not about God, others and the lost. They will only complicate, complicate and paint everything gray. They are single minded, narrow but claiming to be open minded. They will kill you with work, only meant to further their agenda.
We are warned to get them out of our leadership. Titus 3:10-11

Hey, Titus 3! One of my favorites! And I agree it doesn't matter which "side" you're view is, the goal should be helping others.
tulc(thanks!)

 

[MeekOne]

Jeremiah 20:7-13
O Lord, you deceived me, and I was deceived; you overpowered me and prevailed.
I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me.
Whenever I speak, I cry out proclaiming violence and destruction.
So the word of the Lord has brought me insult and reproach all day long.
But if I say, "I will not mention him or speak any more in his name," his word is in my heart like a fire, a fire shut up in my bones.
I am weary of holding it in; indeed, I cannot.
I hear many whispering, "Terror on every side! Report him! Let's report him!"
All my friends are waiting for me to slip, saying, "Perhaps he will be deceived; then we will prevail over him and take our revenge on him."
But the Lord is with me like a mighty warrior; so my persecutors will stumble and not prevail.
They will fail and be thoroughly disgraced; their dishonor will never be forgotten.
O Lord Almighty, you who examine the righteous and probe the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance upon them, for to you I have committed my cause.
Sing to the Lord! Give praise to the Lord!
He rescues the life of the needy from the hands of the wicked.

They are trying to pick off the Christians here, one by one...shooting them in front of the firing squad on the report line. Its pandemonium I tell you!

 

[KomissarSteve]

Inreach? (aka communion) Upreach? (aka worship) Downreach? (aka education) My church is built around all four of these concepts.

And how are any of these things threatened by the presence of non-Christians?

 

[KomissarSteve]

I think it's very interesting this sentiment. Because it's clearly defiance in the face of facts. There are points of unity that you won't get with some Christians by unifying with non-Christians.

Again, I sincerely doubt you will get any points of unity without non-Christians around that you wouldn't get WITH them around.

The Gospel gets lost. It's happened reliably.

The Gospel is already lost to these forums if so many members care so much more about CF being ideologically pure than they do about fulfilling the Great Commission and leading by example.

If the powers that be want to do that, they can. But it's not Christian unity. And don't believe you're uniting Christians thereby.

I think that the goal of unifying Christians was a quixotic one to begin with. Again, I can assure you, there will be no more unity without non-Christians than there will be with them. Strong political and theological differences will still divide the community.

It's very unlikely you'll attract more conservative Presbyterians, and you'll lose many of us. Even those like me would begin treating this as the hard core human marketplace, not a place for new Christians.

And if you allow xenophobia to be the policy of CF, then you're likely to drive many non-Christians further away from Christ than they already are. You'll also drive away many liberals/progressives.

And I've an obvious firsthand reason why this is the case, too. Christians require communion with one another. They require the ability to identify other people they can trust to have the same kind of faith as they do (cf. 1 John). The goal of Christian faith is not assimilating, comprehending, and unifying with all other religious views. It's also not separating, isolating, and building a fortress secure from all other religious views. But it depends on both to accomplish it's true goal.

Would someone who supports option number 2 please tell me how the presence of non-Christians prevents Christians from identifying and enjoying fellowship with other Christians here? Because as far as I can see, that's going on right now across the forums, completely unimpeded by the presence of non-Christians.

This notion that non-Christians are going to keep the overwhelmingly Christian majority of members here from functioning like a Christian community is a blatant canard. The only driving force behind this movement of collective thought is the fear of being challenged to stand up for your beliefs - and to me, that reeks of a cowardice upon which Jesus would never smile.

 

[MezzaMorta]

It is hypocritical for us to call it a Christian website then not allow others to participate. We should be open to all.