At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[Dannager]

Beast again like expressed before many times in this thread - different isnt inferior and equality can only happen with the same experience we are talking about the body of Christ and those who reject the body. You reject membership in the body of Christ therfore you are not equal to those within it and cannot even begin to demand the same when the terms of membership are rejected.

This is exactly the kind of attitude we as Christians should be avoiding. It's offensive to non-Christians and will not win over anyone.

 

[MeekOne]

The truth will set the sinners free.

 

[Dannager]

The truth will set the sinners free.

Only if they aren't disgusted by the way that they're shown the truth. Shoving a Bible in someone's face isn't going to get you or them anywhere. It is possible to harm the faith by trying to spread it incorrectly.

 

[kimber1]

Yes non christians are guests of those in the church to the body of Christ. Quote my whole post next time.

i wasn't talking to you......

 

[kimber1]

This is exactly the kind of attitude we as Christians should be avoiding. It's offensive to non-Christians and will not win over anyone.

absolutely

Only if they aren't disgusted by the way that they're shown the truth. Shoving a Bible in someone's face isn't going to get you or them anywhere. It is possible to harm the faith by trying to spread it incorrectly.

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

This is exactly the kind of attitude we as Christians should be avoiding. It's offensive to non-Christians and will not win over anyone.

Why try to sugar coat everything and pretend? Why call out, "Hey, I've got some candy, kids?"

I don't think so. We're Christians; we're a part of a body, Christ's body; they aren't (though I'm not trying to discriminate) and they should be excluded from our activities/discussions/etc. Unless, of course, we open ourselves up.

 

[Beastt]

Beast again like expressed before many times in this thread - different isnt inferior

It is when it means you're more limited.

Let's try to be honest about this. When blacks were mostly slaves, were they just different, or were they treated as inferior? They couldn't vote, they didn't get paid for their work, they weren't free to go when and where they chose. That's not just different, that's being treated as inferior.

Are nonChristians allowed to move about the forum when and as they choose? Are we allowed to vote or otherwise influence changes on the forum? Are we given equal footing when engaging in debate? The answer to all of those things is "no". That's not just "different". That's being treated as an inferior.

and equality can only happen with the same experience we are talking about the body of Christ and those who reject the body.

Well then, as a former theist, who are you to tell me that I haven't had the same experiences you claim to have? It's simply not possible for anyone to present any credible challenge on such a basis. Like it or not, I am your equal. The problem is that certain people have chosen to build a structure of inequality here and you're in favor of maintaining and perpetuating that inequality while those of us being treated as inferior, are not.

You reject membership in the body of Christ therfore you are not equal to those within it and cannot even begin to demand the same when the terms of membership are rejected.

I've rejected nothing. And if you want to turn this into a theological debate, I'll be happy to engage you in a proper thread. As is, this is no more credible that if I claimed that the Flying Spaghetti Monster has endowed me with a superiority which you could also claim for yourself, but you choose not to. It's unsupportable, contrary to the evidence and holds no value or merit in a discussion such as this.

Receive Christ and then you are totally equal with those of the body.

Can you imagine living in a country which operates on the policies you're suggesting here? What would such a governmental system be called? Before you start thinking about how glorious that would be, remember that those in charge might not select the beliefs you hold as being the ones that mark you as a superior. They might well decide that your beliefs naturally position you as an inferior.

Dont be a fireman demanding to operate on us. The doctors are the ones who need to be doing that.

The analogy just doesn't fit. Christian here have continually failed to show that they are in any way superior for holding positions of authority over the forum. If not for that failure, we wouldn't be where we are. If you go to other forums (such as one I frequent -- Cycling Forums), whether or not you're a cyclist, you're considered just as much a member as anyone else, and are free to discuss anything being discussed or start your own discussions.

It has nothing to do with inferior again but being equipped for the position. You keep comparing apples and oranges.

I would suggest that you are the one comparing apples and oranges. But in all honesty, you can't even show me that your apples exist. Yet you insist that because you believe they do, my oranges are inferior. It just doesn't fly.

 

[Dannager]

Why try to sugar coat everything and pretend? Why call out, "Hey, I've got some candy, kids?"

I don't think so. We're Christians; we're a part of a body, Christ's body; they aren't (though I'm not trying to discriminate) and they should be excluded from our activities/discussions/etc.

Christ would never take the attitude you have chosen to take here.

He would be appalled.

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

Christ would never take the attitude you have chosen to take here.

He would be appalled.

How is your opinion any more Christ-like than mine? I beg to know.

 

[Dannager]

How is your opinion any more Christ-like than mine? I beg to know.

The Christ I know preached unity, compassion, understanding and truth. You appear to be rejecting the first three in favor of a flawed version of the fourth.

 

[tulc]

and they should be excluded from our activities/discussions/etc. Unless, of course, we open ourselves up.

Bingo! We can be open or we can set up a little ghetto for Christians only. Of the two which would you think Jesus would be most interested in?
tulc(just curious)

 

[Trish1947]

You can be rest assured that if an Athiest chose to go to a church and sit down and listen to the message his intent probably is not to disturb the peace of the church. But he also doesn't get to stand up in the pulpit and spout his unbeliefs and ridicule. Thats what makes a forum different, they are allowed too. Just listen to the message, make your own discisions about it. And if you have decided that you just don't believe it, what is your point of returning? Are you really trying to give it another shot, or now is it something else?

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

The Christ I know preached unity, compassion, understanding and truth. You appear to be rejecting the first three in favor of a flawed version of the fourth.

No, I'm simply trying to "close the circle" so we're not as vulnerable.

I don't understand what was wrong with the old way?? It was Christian Forums, for Christians. It had a place for non-Believers, but the majority was meant for Christians. The purpose was for Christians. Why change?

Answer this, please.

 

[Dannager]

You can be rest assured that if an Athiest chose to go to a church and sit down and listen to the message his intent probably is not to disturb the peace of the church. But he also doesn't get to stand up in the pulpit and spout his unbeliefs and ridicule. Thats what makes a forum different, they are allowed too. Just listen to the message, make your own discisions about it. And if you have decided that you just don't believe it, what is your point of returning? Are you really trying to give it another shot, or now is it something else?

I've never once felt that hearing an atheist's opinion on something was somehow harmful. My faith has always been strong enough to consider their position without jeopardizing my own.

 

[Beastt]

Why try to sugar coat everything and pretend? Why call out, "Hey, I've got some candy, kids?"

I don't think so. We're Christians; we're a part of a body, Christ's body; they aren't (though I'm not trying to discriminate) and they should be excluded from our activities/discussions/etc. Unless, of course, we open ourselves up.

I wish you could read your post as though it were written by someone else. If you could, you'd probably see exactly what I see, I'm not trying discriminate but you should be excluded from our activities.

Of course you're not trying to discriminate because we all know that discrimination is wrong. But when you say, "they should be excluded from our activities/discussions/etc.", that's discrimination.

It's like saying, "I don't want to discriminate, but _____ (blacks, whites, indians, asians - whatever), shouldn't be allowed to sit in our theaters."

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

Bingo! We can be open or we can set up a little ghetto for Christians only. Of the two which would you think Jesus would be most interested in?
tulc(just curious)

Probably opening up.

However, that's not the purpose of this site. This site was suppose to be intended for the body of Christ. If we want to start an outreach ministry, then we'll do.

 

[Dannager]

No, I'm simply trying to "close the circle" so we're not as vulnerable.

Vulnerable to what? Hearing other people's opinions? Is that considered dangerous now?

I don't understand what was wrong with the old way?? It was Christian Forums, for Christians. It had a place for non-Believers, but the majority was meant for Christians. The purpose was for Christians. Why change?

Because a Christian's purpose is to reach out to non-believers.

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

I wish you could read your post as though it were written by someone else. If you could, you'd probably see exactly what I see, I'm not trying discriminate but you should be excluded from our activities.

Of course you're not trying to discriminate because we all know that discrimination is wrong. But when you say, "they should be excluded from our activities/discussions/etc.", that's discrimination.

It's like saying, "I don't want to discriminate, but _____ (blacks, whites, indians, asians - whatever), shouldn't be allowed to sit in our theaters."

If the purpose of the theatre is for a black man, what purpose does a white man have in the theatre?

 

[kimber1]

...if one more person uses the atheist preaching from the pulpit analogy.....

 

[Dannager]

If the purpose of the theatre is for a black man, what purpose does a white man have in the theatre?

Whichever purpose he feels compels him to be there. I'm not in the habit of relegating other people's thoughts for them.