Assyrians on Sabbath and Sunday Worship

[SabbathBlessings]

Happy Sabbath all, I am off for now. God bless!

 

[ChetSinger]

I've kept an eye on this thread and have learned much. And I thank the OP in particular for his first post, it was very helpful to me.

My thinking remains unchanged: I think Paul himself released us from Sabbath observances here, in Colossians 2:16, where he grouped Sabbaths together with the Jewish feasts and new moons:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink, or in the matter of a feast, new moon, or Sabbath days – the shadow of the things to come, but the reality is Christ! - NET​

To my SDA brethren, I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong on this subject: I think your denomination is doing exactly what Paul says we shouldn't do: judging other brethren with respect to Sabbath days.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

"The Lord's Day" only appears once in all of scripture in > Revelation 1:10

true, but that fact does not seem to matter to them. they place what ever meaning they want on it to make it say something it does not say. ignoring the evidence that clearly points to a different meaning.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

I've kept an eye on this thread and have learned much. And I thank the OP in particular for his first post, it was very helpful to me.

My thinking remains unchanged: I think Paul himself released us from Sabbath observances here, in Colossians 2:16, where he grouped Sabbaths together with the Jewish feasts and new moons:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink, or in the matter of a feast, new moon, or Sabbath days – the shadow of the things to come, but the reality is Christ! - NET​

To my SDA brethren, I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong on this subject: I think your denomination is doing exactly what Paul says we shouldn't do: judging other brethren with respect to Sabbath days.

thanks-you for your imput nice that you are cordial, i must disagree with your conclusion, Col 2:16 has a context, and you are ignoring the context. Context indicates they were being judged by people, who cared about ,circumcision,sacrifice, sabbath, new moons a festival, food and drink. Who would care about that, not a gentile only a Jew. so far from saying it was done away with he is saying do not let the Jews tell you who to keep them. that is not saying don't keep them, just you not bound by all the extra stuff the jews demand

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We all know by now that there's no commandment to worship on Sunday, and that the Law wasn't abolished, but fulfilled. Sabbatarians believe the law was fulfilled too. Which is why they feel free to not keep much of the whole law, which they call "shadow laws". And that even their sabbath keeping is piecemeal compared to how orthodox Jews keep it.

Maybe you can elaborate on this statement. How do you know how SDA’s keep the Sabbath or how Orthodox Jews keep the Sabbath. There are over two million Orthodox Jews and over 20 million SDA’s. Only God knows how each of these groups and people keep His Sabbath and I am assuming you are not claiming to be Him.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We all know by now that there's no commandment to worship on Sunday, and that the Law wasn't abolished, but fulfilled. Sabbatarians believe the law was fulfilled too. Which is why they feel free to not keep much of the whole law, which they call "shadow laws". And that even their sabbath keeping is piecemeal compared to how orthodox Jews keep it.

Sometimes I wonder if you really are a Sabbatarian to be honest Brian and not Catholic with some of the things you post here and elsewhere. Let me asks you do you seek out a Levite Priest every time you sin and offer up animal sacrifices in a earthly Sanctuary, and get yourself circumcised? If not why not? Yet these are the Mosiac "shadow laws" that point to things to come under the body of Christ. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. How does this effect what laws are applicable to new covenant believers and what is now obsolete?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

First, it's necessary not to load up such a comment with misinformation like saying the Fourth Commandment is now considered, by the churches that worship on Sunday, to have been abolished. Second, the answer to your dilemma is called the New Testament. And yes, I know that there are people who refuse to admit that it is God's word just as the Old Testament is.

I have not provided any misinformation. What Sunday keeping Church's keep Gods' seventh day Sabbath according to the 10 commandments? The truth is that all of God's people worshiped God on the "seventh day" of the week according to the scriptures. This is shown both historically inside of the scriptures and outside of the scriptures. Sunday worship only came into the Church after the death of Jesus and the Apostles and is a man-made teaching and tradition unsupported by the scriptures that has lead many to break God's 4th commandment. There is not a single scripture in all of Gods' Word that says that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. Jesus warns us in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. Therefore the question should be asked if we are knowingly following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God and Jesus says by doing so we are not worshiping God who then are we worshiping; God or man? Let's be honest here. Our words and opinions do not really matter here. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I've kept an eye on this thread and have learned much. And I thank the OP in particular for his first post, it was very helpful to me. My thinking remains unchanged: I think Paul himself released us from Sabbath observances here, in Colossians 2:16, where he grouped Sabbaths together with the Jewish feasts and new moons:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink, or in the matter of a feast, new moon, or Sabbath days – the shadow of the things to come, but the reality is Christ! - NET​

To my SDA brethren, I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong on this subject: I think your denomination is doing exactly what Paul says we shouldn't do: judging other brethren with respect to Sabbath days.

There is a saying that surface readers are like sifting sand going nowhere and that cherry picking scripture out of context can lead one to twisting of the scriptures to their own destruction as shown in the scriptures in 2 Peter 3:16. So we should all be careful to prayerfully examine the scriptures in their immediate context and to the context to the rest of the bible asking God to be our guide and teacher and claiming His promises as we seek to know the truth of Gods' Word (John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17 etc).

Your claims in regards to Colossians 2:16 are not true, but allow me to explain why from the scriptures. The reference to both Colossians 2:16 and also to it's parallel scripture that Paul is quoting from in the old testament scriptures in Ezekiel 45:17 is to the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbath days (plural; not the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment) with the context and application to the Feast days not God's 4th commandment outside of the annual Feast days. Colossians 2:17 says that these are all shadows fulfilled in the body of Christ.

Tell me how can God's 4th commandment be a shadow of anything when it is a "memorial" commandment that points backwards to the finished work of creation and not forward to things to come? I do not think you have thought this through very well. Don't forget that Gods "seventh day" Sabbath was made outside of sin and all the shadow laws given in God's plan of salvation because there was no sin when God made the "seventh day" Sabbath of creation. Therefore it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a "shadow law" of anything because it points backwards to the finished work of creation when there was no sin and no shadow laws pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for all mankind. Can you see your mistake here?

According to the scriptures all of God's 10 commandments (including God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath of creation) are all moral laws. That is they give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. They are our duty of moral right doing and love to God (first four commandments) and our moral right doing of love to our neighbor (second six commandments) and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin (James 2:10-11).

You are mixing up the annual ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" (plural) connected only to the annual Feast days shown in the old testament scriptures in *Leviticus 23:6-8; Leviticus 23:24-25; Leviticus 23:27-32; Leviticus 23:34-36; Leviticus 23:39; Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that are not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.

The above annual ceremonial sabbaths in the annual Feast days are linked directly to the annual Feast days and unlike God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle.

Your mixing up the annual ceremonial sabbaths in the Feast days from Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 with Gods' 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and is a part of God's eternal law in the new covenant that gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4).

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Freth]

What Sunday keeping Church's keep Gods' seventh day Sabbath according to the 10 commandments?

This. Or even a Sunday equivalent? Few, if any.

 

[Albion]

What Sunday keeping Church's keep Gods' seventh day Sabbath according to the 10 commandments? The truth is that all of God's people worshiped God on the "seventh day" of the week according to the scriptures. This is shown both historically inside of the scriptures and outside of the scriptures.

Scripture also teaches us that the church decided to make worship on the Lord's Day be the principle day of worship, AND that is recorded in the New Testament, which is divine revelation, the word of God.

Any unwillingness to address this fact--with or without adding misinformation such as saying that someone changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday or that the Sabbath was abolished--dooms the discussion and makes it simply one side or the other stating its opinion.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Scripture also teaches us that the church decided to make worship on the Lord's Day be the principle day of worship, AND that is recorded in the New Testament, which is divine revelation, the word of God.

Any unwillingness to address this fact--with or without adding misinformation such as saying that someone changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday or that the Sabbath was abolished--dooms the discussion and makes it simply one side or the other stating its opinion.

Actually Albion, let's be honest here. The scriptures teach no such thing. There is not a single scripture that says that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments have been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest.

 

[The Liturgist]

All of that was prior to the New Covenant and the start of the Church established by Jesus Christ. Not everything discussed and established in the Church can be found in the letters the Church decided to canonize and put together to form the New Testament. We also have to go by writings by the first century church fathers to understand the full history and doctrine of the first century Church.

And one thing the neither the New Testament nor the first century Church established was sola scriptura. Martin Luther and others established that rule 1,500 years later.

Indeed so. Sola scriptura was an innovation on the part of Luther, and also a huge mistake, larger than he realized, because he himself did not actually follow it to the extreme it suggested. Basically, sola scriptura meant one thing to Luther, and another thing to radical reformers, who he fiercely opposed, the Anabaptists, but I fear he inadvertently inspired them.

I don’t think the SDA church fully understands Sola Scriptura either, as Luther intended the concept, because Martin Luther would obviously be aghast at the idea of Ellen White’s interpretations of scripture being treated as infallible. He was trying to move away from the idea of an infallible magisterium, but if one is to assign infallibility to things beyond Scripture, the Creeds, Councils, and canons which decide scripture, the Roman Catholic Magisterium is much closer to what Luther believed than the doctrines of EGW.

 

[The Liturgist]

By the way, there is something about this thread which is really annoying me, and that is, some months ago, a member claimed that the Assyrian Church of the East was historically Sabbatarian, and at the time I emphatically stressed that was not the case (a similar claim was also made about the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which was also false), and now we have this thread confirming what I said.

 

[The Liturgist]

Scripture also teaches us that the church decided to make worship on the Lord's Day be the principle day of worship, AND that is recorded in the New Testament, which is divine revelation, the word of God.

Any unwillingness to address this fact--with or without adding misinformation such as saying that someone changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday or that the Sabbath was abolished--dooms the discussion and makes it simply one side or the other stating its opinion.

This is absolutely the case. I don’t see how a claim of Sola Scriptura can be maintained logically with a Sabbatarian argument. What Adventists ought to do is just declare the writings of Ellen White canonical scripture, and then no contradiction will exist, since they do regard her as an infallible prophet, and if she does hold such a role, why should her writings not form a part of the scriptural canon? Who says they must follow the 27 book New Testament prescribed by St. Athanasius and Pope Gelasius?

 

[The Liturgist]

Actually Albion, let's be honest here. The scriptures teach no such thing. There is not a single scripture that says that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments have been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest.

@Albion literally just refuted that. Also, what the Sabbatine commandment actually says is “Honor the Sabbath and keep it Holy.” I believe this is accomplished through remembrance that Christ our God rested in a tomb on Saturday. I also believe it is meet and right for Christians where possible to worship on the entire Triduum, fasting on Wednesday and Friday, resting from the fast on the Sabbath, and on the First Day, celebrating the creation of the Universe and the Resurrection of our Christ, the two events which represent the supreme triumph of God over death.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Actually Albion, let's be honest here. The scriptures teach no such thing. There is not a single scripture that says that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments have been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest.

Your response..

@Albion literally just refuted that.

Really? Where was that I must have missed it. Where is the scripture?

Also, what the Sabbatine commandment actually says is “Honor the Sabbath and keep it Holy.” I believe this is accomplished through remembrance that Christ our God rested in a tomb on Saturday. I also believe it is meet and right for Christians where possible to worship on the entire Triduum, fasting on Wednesday and Friday, resting from the fast on the Sabbath, and on the First Day, celebrating the creation of the Universe and the Resurrection of our Christ, the two events which represent the supreme triumph of God over death

The scripture says no such thing it says "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy." *Exodus 20:8 and that the "seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God" in Exodus 20:10. I suggest you re-read God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11.

 

[tall73]

thanks-you for your imput nice that you are cordial, i must disagree with your conclusion, Col 2:16 has a context, and you are ignoring the context. Context indicates they were being judged by people, who cared about ,circumcision,sacrifice, sabbath, new moons a festival, food and drink. Who would care about that, not a gentile only a Jew. so far from saying it was done away with he is saying do not let the Jews tell you who to keep them. that is not saying don't keep them, just you not bound by all the extra stuff the jews demand

Do you keep all the things listed in Col. 2?

 

[tall73]

Your claims in regards to Colossians 2:16 are not true, but allow me to explain why from the scriptures. The reference to both Colossians 2:16 and also to it's parallel scripture that Paul is quoting from in the old testament scriptures in Ezekiel 45:17 is to the meat and drink offerings, the new moons and the sabbath days (plural; not the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment) with the context and application to the Feast days not God's 4th commandment outside of the annual Feast days. Colossians 2:17 says that these are all shadows fulfilled in the body of Christ.

Ezekiel 45's summary statement is then spelled out in the subsequent verses and includes the weekly Sabbath.

And your distinction that it only included the weekly sabbaths during the other appointed times seems to be something you added to try to deflect from this.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ezekiel 45's summary statement is then spelled out in the subsequent verses and includes the weekly Sabbath. And your distinction that it only included the weekly sabbaths during the other appointed times seems to be something you added to try to deflect from this.

According to the scriptures, the plural from Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 shows in both passages that the context is to the meat and drink offerings, new moons and the sabbath days (plural) in the Feast days. We of course are talking about all the sabbaths under the old covenant linked into the animal sacrifices and feast days. Beside the "seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment which is simply every "seventh day" of the week; meaning under the old covenant God's 4th commandment was inside the annual Feast days and outside of the annual Feast days (because it is continually every "seventh day"). There were ceremonial sabbaths however that where only annual ceremonial sabbaths that were connected directly to the Feast days that were not Gods' 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These annual ceremonial shadow sabbaths connected to the Feast days included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36. No one is arguing that Gods' 4th commandment was not included as a holy convocations (meaning a calling out to a public gathering and sacred place) in the annual Feast days of Leviticus 23. It is the sabbaths in the Feast days however that are the topic of subject matter in Colossians 2:16 as they were shadow laws pointing to the body of Christ. Not God's 4th commandment which is outside of the annual Feast days that point backwards to the finished work of creation and not forwards to things to come in the new covenant.

Take Care.

 

[tall73]

According to the scriptures, the plural from Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 shows in both passages are in context is to the meat and drink offerings, new moons and the sabbath days (plural) in the Feast days. We of course are talking about all the sabbaths under the old covenant linked into the animal sacrifices and feast days. Beside the "seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment which is simply every "seventh day" of the week meaning it is inside the annual Feast days and outside of the annual Feast days (because it is continually every "seventh day") there were sabbaths that where only annual ceremonial sabbaths that were connected directly to the Feast days that were not Gods' 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These annual ceremonial shadow sabbaths connected to the Feast days included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36. No one is arguing the Gods' 4th commandment was not included as a holy convocations (meaning a calling out to a public gathering and sacred place) of Leviticus 23 in the annual Feast days but as shown in the scriptures it is the sabbaths in the Feast days that are the topic of subject matter as they were shadow laws pointing to the body of Christ. God's 4th commandment is outside of the annual Feast days however and is every seventh day of the week. So please don't try and post things I have never said. That is being dishonest.
Take Care.

I was responding to what you said. And I also noted that the context indicates it includes the weekly Sabbath, not just the yearly. Indeed it is all the appointed times, which also included the Sabbath.

Therefore the poster was not incorrect. He was correct. Col. 2 includes the Sabbath. Whatever you do with the other elements you need to do with it.

They are all stated to be shadows.