Ask God for Me

[2PhiloVoid]

It is not about evidence I want. It is about the quality of the evidence. Not all evidence is equal, some is bad and some is good.

True enough. Not all evidence is equal. But I'm not sure from where you've drawn your taxonomic distinction between "bad" and "good" evidence. Could you help me find the specific sources you've drawn from so as to come to the conclusion you presently have about what constitutes "bad" versus "good" evidence?

Thanks!

 

[John Helpher]

I wonder if anyone here who can talk to God in prayer would ask God what they could say to me to convince me He exists and post it here if they get an answer.

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself". John 7:17

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

True enough. Not all evidence is equal. But I'm not sure from where you've drawn your taxonomic distinction between "bad" and "good" evidence. Could you help me find the specific sources you've drawn from so as to come to the conclusion you presently have about what constitutes "bad" versus "good" evidence?

Thanks!

What are you asking? Are you wanting to know who I should look to to tell me what will convince me? Bad evidence cannot be shown to have a high level of confidence that it is true, good evidence can. It really depends on the claim and the evidence. If you said you made a hamburger for lunch today I will believe your testimony as sufficient evidence. If you say big foot made you a hamburger for lunch today I will need better evidence for that than your testimony.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself". John 7:17

This I did and I concluded He speaks for himself.

 

[John Helpher]

This I did

Would you mind clarifying what you did?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Would you mind clarifying what you did?

I was a christian for 18 years, for most of that I studied and tried to do what God wanted me to do. What Jesus commands us to do such as make disciples, love God and neighbors etc.

 

[John Helpher]

Duplicate

 

[John Helpher]

What Jesus commands us to do such as make disciples, love God and neighbors etc.

Did you try the part where he says we cannot work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other as a way of making disciples? I mean, you can't really go into all the world making disciples if you're committed to a job making money.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What are you asking? Are you wanting to know who I should look to to tell me what will convince me? Bad evidence cannot be shown to have a high level of confidence that it is true, good evidence can. It really depends on the claim and the evidence. If you said you made a hamburger for lunch today I will believe your testimony as sufficient evidence. If you say big foot made you a hamburger for lunch today I will need better evidence for that than your testimony.

I'm asking you if you have a praxis by which you attempt to evaluate information and/or evidence. I would kind of expect for this to the case if you're now an avowed Evidentialist with materialist leanings, but if you're instead merely a Nietzschean existentialist, well then, I .... guess you can call the shots about what makes "good" evidence versus "bad" evidence as you see fit.

 

[John Helpher]

I'm asking you if you have a praxis by which you attempt to evaluate information and/or evidence. I would kind of expect for this to the case if you're now an avowed Evidentialist with materialist leanings, but if you're instead merely a Nietzschean existentialist, well then, I .... guess you can call the shots about what makes "good" evidence versus "bad" evidence as you see fit.

Buuuurn

 

[Ed1wolf]

I could say the same thing about you. But I was referring to people that were converted by what they considered evidence irrespective of whether you or anyone else considers it evidence.

mm: If it's purely an individual notion of evidence, then you're advocating pure relativism in epistemology rather than actually seeking coherence by common understandings and falsification and testing of claims. In short, you render the idea of truth completely hollow in any remotely objective sense (though I have to wonder if you're skewing the idea of objective as well as truth)

No, I am not advocating relativism. I am just stating that some people consider things evidence that may not actually be evidence and also some people may have a different understanding of what they consider evidence. Such as they may not understand the different standards of evidence when looking at scientific evidence versus historical evidence. Or even the difference between empirical scientific evidence and theoretical scientific evidence. Because they may not understand the difference between empirical science and theoretical science.

ed: Umm I was not claiming it was evidence for Christianity, I was just showing the weakness of the atheist argument I was referencing. E.g. that just because most people accept the religion of their society is evidence against Christianity.

mm: It's evidence against Christianity being true when someone argues that point, regardless, it's not just atheists, not sure you can claim that's exclusively or primarily an argument against Christianity, ad populum is just as easily used by those who claim that it supports transcendent/supernatural claims as true. The fallacy of one argument does not undermine the conclusion made with a different argument

True, but I consider it a weak argument either way.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Did you try the part where he says we cannot work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other as a way of making disciples? I mean, you can't really go into all the world making disciples if you're committed to a job making money.

So are you saying I was not a real christian because I had a job to support my family?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I'm asking you if you have a praxis by which you attempt to evaluate information and/or evidence. I would kind of expect for this to the case if you're now an avowed Evidentialist with materialist leanings, but if you're instead merely a Nietzschean existentialist, well then, I .... guess you can call the shots about what makes "good" evidence versus "bad" evidence as you see fit.

I gave a practical answer that you ignored.

 

[Kylie]

Hey @Kylie

I'm back, it's so good to know you are still regularly appearing here at CF. I pray for health and peace of mind for you, and your family.

I know you are a seeker of 'proof'. Have you sought out Jesus with all your heart since the last time I spoke with you. Were you willing to come to God on His terms and not yours?

If not, why not?

Cheers

Why should I bother even talking to you anymore when you have just demonstrated that you ignore whatever I have to say?

I have already made it abundantly clear to you that I have already done what you asked and I got nothing. I mentioned in a post from January 13th of this year that I did it for my husband. Don't believe me? Here's the post.

Do religious discussions here make you want to be Christian?

Now you act as though I never told you, and that indicates to me that you only care that I keep doing it until I get the results you think I should be getting. If you are going to treat me with such disrespect, I have nothing to say to you.

 

[John Helpher]

So are you saying I was not a real christian because I had a job to support my family?

I'm saying that using your time to work for money is not consistent with what Jesus taught. I'm sensing that you may feel a little outrage that I would dare to suggest that you weren't a real Christian, but you, being an Atheist now, should have a reasonable perspective on that, now.

Jesus himself suggested as much about many of those who professed to follow him even in his own day. He said, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me"? and "The foolish man is the one who hears my teachings but does not obey them".

If you spent your time working for money, then you were not practicing Jesus' teachings, and therefore the principle I relayed to you in my original post still applies.

 

[the iconoclast]

Why should I bother even talking to you anymore when you have just demonstrated that you ignore whatever I have to say?

Hey kylie :

Please excuse me, i'm aware of our last conversation. It's been a while since I've been on site and I wanted to reignite our discussion.

I have already made it abundantly clear to you that I have already done what you asked and I got nothing. I mentioned in a post from January 13th of this year that I did it for my husband. Don't believe me? Here's the post.


Do religious discussions here make you want to be Christian?

I believe you. I even have a copy of it in my folder - where I store all discussions.

Now you act as though I never told you, and that indicates to me that you only care that I keep doing it until I get the results you think I should be getting. If you are going to treat me with such disrespect, I have nothing to say to you

Please excuse me, this was not my intention.

Now let's get back into it.

1. You have suggested that you have tried to come to God because your husband wanted you to do so.

Is this how Christian faith works? How does one come to God?

Are you willing to come to God on His terms and get the proof?

Cheers and I mean you no respect. I like you!

Cheers

 

[the iconoclast]

Hey @muichimotsu

Where art thou? It is time for discussion, dont be shy!

 

[John Helpher]

Are you willing to come to God on His terms and get the proof?

This is the question though, right? I dare say most professing Christians don't know what Jesus' terms are. Even back in his own day Jesus asked his followers, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me"?

 

[Kylie]

Hey kylie :

Please excuse me, i'm aware of our last conversation. It's been a while since I've been on site and I wanted to reignite our discussion.



I believe you. I even have a copy of it in my folder - where I store all discussions.



Please excuse me, this was not my intention.

Now let's get back into it.

1. You have suggested that you have tried to come to God because your husband wanted you to do so.

Is this how Christian faith works? How does one come to God?

Are you willing to come to God on His terms and get the proof?

Cheers and I mean you no respect. I like you!

Cheers

We've already had this discussion. If you didn't get it then you won't get it now and I'm not going to waste my time trying to tell you again when you've just demonstrated that you just seem to think I should do things your way.

 

[John Helpher]

I mentioned in a post from January 13th of this year that I did it for my husband.

So what happened with your husband? What was his response to your experiment and did he accept the results?