Ask an Atheist

[Redac]

Because there are people who will stop you by whatever means necessary, and I think you'll find that life is much more prosperous for you in the long run if your time isn't consumed by such battles.

Not much of a moral argument, though.

 

[quatona]

If I don't believe in a God or an afterlife, then there are no consequences for my actions, assuming they are legal.

[The way you put it ("If I don´t believe in God...there aren´t."), it makes no sense: facts don´t depend on your beliefs. It´s either "If I don´t believe in God...I don´t believe there are." or "If there´s no God...there aren´t". I am assuming that´s what you mean.]

But, of course, there are always countless consequences to your actions.
There are no afterlife punishments imposed by a God - I´ll give you that but that´s actually almost tautologically true.
Thus, for a person who considers afterlife-punishments imposed by a God the only good reason to abstain from sociopathic behaviour (and a person who runs on classical conditioning, in the first place), there is no good reason to abstain from it. I am not one of those persons.

Anyway, I don´t even see how your post addressed my question. Could you clarify?

 

[quatona]

Not much of a moral argument, though.

The question didn´t ask for a moral argument, specifically. But, yes, it doesn´t seem much better than "God will punish you.". However, since that seems to be the questioner´s reason, it appears to be a good enough alternative.

 

[quatona]

Why should I not pursue my own interests at the expense of others?

For me it´s pretty simple: I don´t want to live in a world with eploitation. Therefore it´s not in my own best interest to exploit others (i.e. to help creating a world I don´t want to live in). It´s not a question of "should", it´s a question of "want".

Or, to put it even simpler: If you don´t want to swim in pee, don´t pee in the pool you´re swimming in.

 

[HereIStand]

[The way you put it ("If I don´t believe in God...there aren´t."), it makes no sense: facts don´t depend on your beliefs. It´s either "If I don´t believe in God...I don´t believe there are." or "If there´s no God...there aren´t". I am assuming that´s what you mean.]

But, of course, there are always countless consequences to your actions.
There are no afterlife punishments imposed by a God - I´ll give you that but that´s actually almost tautologically true.
Thus, for a person who considers afterlife-punishments imposed by a God the only good reason to abstain from sociopathic behaviour (and a person who runs on classical conditioning, in the first place), there is no good reason to abstain from it. I am not one of those persons.

Anyway, I don´t even see how your post addressed my question. Could you clarify?

"Facts don't depend on your beliefs." True. God exist and I'm accountable to him whether I acknowledge that fact or not.

If I seriously believe that there is no God, then I can safely ignore any consequences to my actions, other than those that cause me harm or are illegal. There is no logical reason to live otherwise. It doesn't mean that I'm then a sociopath. That would harm me. Nor does it mean that I don't have love for my mother or those who can benefit me. I may. There are Christian arguments for God granting me a love for Him and for others in general (whether they can benefit me or not), but I have no reason to consider these.

 

[quatona]

"Facts don't depend on your beliefs."

Thanks for conceding your error.

If I seriously believe that there is no God, then I can safely ignore any consequences to my actions, other than those that cause me harm or are illegal. There is no logical reason to live otherwise.

Once you have decided that the only "logical reason" is avoiding negative consequences and punishment, here isn´t any other "logical reason" with there being a God, either.
There are, however, "logical reasons" apart from avoiding punishment - with or without there being a God.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Isn't that called "survival of the fittest"?

No, it's just living your life.

 

[Cearbhall]

Not much of a moral argument, though.

And?

 

[durangodawood]

"Facts don't depend on your beliefs." True. God exist and I'm accountable to him whether I acknowledge that fact or not.

This is more a matter of faith than a "fact".

Someday we may know it as fact. Or maybe not.
But for now, its an article of faith.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

So feel free to ask me just about anything?

Who is your favorite Spice Girl?

 

[HereIStand]

Thanks for conceding your error.

No error. God exists whether everyone believes it or no one does. Our believing doesn't make Him so.

Once you have decided that the only "logical reason" is avoiding negative consequences and punishment, here isn´t any other "logical reason" with there being a God, either.

Avoidance of punishment isn't the only reason for believing in God. His existence is self-evident, and has been to the vast majority of people throughout history.

There are, however, "logical reasons" apart from avoiding punishment - with or without there being a God.

There is no logical basis for ethics apart from belief in God as a starting point. Atheists and Agnostics would be worthy of respect if they would quit trying to live like Christians.

 

[AV1611VET]

Who is your favorite Spice Girl?

Hey, Gene!

I was just looking at your profile yesterday!

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Hey, Gene!

I was just looking at your profile yesterday!

Hiya! I have to stay away because sometimes I just get sucked in and it's bad for productivity. Haha. Wish I could message you directly or post on your wall or something to check in here and there.

 

[Redac]

And?

And this thread is located in the Ethics & Morality subforum, so perhaps I was reading more into the question and expecting more from the answer than I should have.

 

[Cearbhall]

And this thread is located in the Ethics & Morality subforum, so perhaps I was reading more into the question and expecting more from the answer than I should have.

Yes, perhaps you were. I won't pretend that I think objective morality exists in order to make my responses fit expectations.

 

[jayem]

They're pretty straightforward yes-or-no questions.

Here are some more I like to put atheists on the spot with:

1. Was Jesus born of a virgin?

2. If so, should we view Him as a glorified ape Who died on the Cross to redeem us?

3. Are we mutant copy-errors claiming to be made in the image & likeness of God?

4. Were the OT Jews appropriately considered: ignorant, Bronze Age, desert-dwelling nomads?

I wasn't asked, but I'll take a stab at it.

1. Only in legend.

2. Rabbi Yeshua was a human being. A primate of the Hominina subtribe, like all the rest of us. (Which taxonomically, is not a great ape.) He was the leader of a 1st century C.E. Jewish sect, and apparently had enough charisma to gain a following. His teachings threatened the religious and political establishment of the day. So he was executed by crucifixion. Legend has it that he came back to life after being dead. But that story wasn't written down till decades later. I'm of the opinion that he was certainly an influential religious teacher. In league with the Buddha, and Mohammed. But like them, he was a human being, and in no way had any divine or supernatural attributes.

3. No. We are the only surviving member of our genus. We evolved like all other life forms. But we do have the ability to affect life on our planet--either positively or negatively--as no other species does. Which makes us kinda special.

4. The ancient Hebrews were people of their times. Of course they were ignorant of modern science, and were superstitious and tribalistic. But they did the best they could.

 

[AV1611VET]

I wasn't asked, but I'll take a stab at it.

Thank you for your honest answers.

 

[jayem]

There is no logical basis for ethics apart from belief in God as a starting point. Atheists and Agnostics would be worthy of respect if they would quit trying to live like Christians.

You're entitled to your beliefs, but that's just not true. I believe morality is fundamentally a result of our evolution as social primates. For a society to exist at all, its members must have some inhibition on killing and stealing resources from each other. Natural selection favors individuals with behavioral instincts that promote social living. In fact, I think Homo sapiens evolved a moral sense first. Religious beliefs came later as a way to reinforce social behavior in the tribe.

There's also the principle of reciprocity (in its various forms.) I don't believe in any kind of supernatural god, but I do believe that what goes around comes around. If you consistently act like a jerk, there's a pretty good chance you'll eventually be treated the same way. You don't need any god or religion to know that.

 

[Strathos]

You're entitled to your beliefs, but that's just not true. I believe morality is fundamentally a result of our evolution as social primates. For a society to exist at all, its members must have some inhibition on killing and stealing resources from each other. Natural selection favors individuals with behavioral instincts that promote social living. In fact, I think Homo sapiens evolved a moral sense first. Religious beliefs came later as a way to reinforce social behavior in the tribe.

Could God not have planned it that way?

 

[durangodawood]

Could God not have planned it that way?

Dangerous line of thinking here: proposing that God ordered the world in such a way that it looks entirely plausible without God.