Ask a physicist anything. (5)

[LittleLambofJesus]

Okay. You've probably seen the trick of blowing out a candle and then lighting the smoke to reignite the candle, yes?

So say your house is filling up with smoke due to some small fire going on and you have a candle that's lit next to your bed on your nightstand or something.

Once the smoke finally reaches this fire source, would your entire home immediately burn completely?

Doesn't the the fire have to be at a certain high temperature to ignite the smoke along with a bunch of oxygen?
[I watched one of those forensic science shows in a case relating to that. Can't remember which one tho ]

Reve 18:8 Yet this, in one day, shall be arriving the stripes of her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned,
that strong Lord the God, the one judging Her.

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

 

[Chesterton]

Do any of the elements in their natural state have a smell? I know some like sulphur and iodine produce odor when heated, but do they or any other elements have odor at room temperature?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Do any of the elements in their natural state have a smell? I know some like sulphur and iodine produce odor when heated, but do they or any other elements have odor at room temperature?

Gold smells of overweight felines

A naturally smelly element would have to be gaseous, and at least mildly organic in order to elicit an olfactory response. Ozone, which is just O[sub]3[/sub], smells slightly electrically, slightly burn-y, slightly chlorine-y. And, incidentally, chlorine is another naturally smelly element.

 

[Chesterton]

Gold smells of overweight felines

A naturally smelly element would have to be gaseous, and at least mildly organic in order to elicit an olfactory response. Ozone, which is just O[sub]3[/sub], smells slightly electrically, slightly burn-y, slightly chlorine-y. And, incidentally, chlorine is another naturally smelly element.

Is ozone a basic element?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Is ozone a basic element?

Yep: it's a substance whose atoms have the same proton number.

 

[Cabal]

Yep: it's a substance whose atoms have the same proton number.

Er....it's a molecule, surely - ergo not an element? I was under the impression that it didn't matter if all constituent atoms were identical or not - diatomic oxygen behaves quite differently from monatomic/triatomic/tetratomic oxygen.

ETA: Pretty sure it does count as a molecule as I recall the simplest molecule defined as singly-ionised diatomic hydrogen.

ETA**2: Nope, scratch that example, it's not neutral. Still has two distinct nuclei involved though, which would make it a molecule.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Er....it's a molecule, surely - ergo not an element? I was under the impression that it didn't matter if all constituent atoms were identical or not - diatomic oxygen behaves quite differently from monatomic/triatomic/tetratomic oxygen.

ETA: Pretty sure it does count as a molecule as I recall the simplest molecule defined as singly-ionised diatomic hydrogen.

An atom is an isolated nucleus of protons and neutrons surrounded by electrons, such that it is electrically neutral (at a distance).
An ion is an atom that is electrically charged.
A molecule is a collection of atoms and ions electrically bonded (covalent, metallic, etc).

As to whether it's an element... well, elements are just types of atoms, such that those with the same number of protons are the same element. So O[sub]3[/sub] is as much an element as O[sub]2[/sub] or even O[sup]-[/sup]: the number of protons of the constituent atoms and/or ions are the same.

So O[sub]3[/sub] is a molecule, and also an element, and happens to smell slightly electrical-y.

 

[Cabal]

Do any of the elements in their natural state have a smell? I know some like sulphur and iodine produce odor when heated, but do they or any other elements have odor at room temperature?

I'm going to be a pain and point out that there's nothing necessarily "natural" about room temperature, that's a tad anthropocentric of you

But if it is gaseous and can interact with your nose, then yes. The gaseous halogens are a prime example.

 

[Cabal]

An atom is an isolated nucleus of protons and neutrons surrounded by electrons, such that it is electrically neutral (at a distance).
An ion is an atom that is electrically charged.
A molecule is a collection of atoms and ions electrically bonded (covalent, metallic, etc).

As to whether it's an element... well, elements are just types of atoms, such that those with the same number of protons are the same element. So O[sub]3[/sub] is as much an element as O[sub]2[/sub] or even O[sup]-[/sup]: the number of protons of the constituent atoms and/or ions are the same.

So O[sub]3[/sub] is a molecule, and also an element, and happens to smell slightly electrical-y.

Uh... apart from the fact it has different properties than O, or O2, the fact it has two nuclei and elements are atoms (as you just defined them) means it can't be element as well as molecule. I've never once encountered a source that says a molecule can be an element.

Even if you stuck to your proton number point, O2 has twice as many protons as O!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm going to be a pain and point out that there's nothing necessarily "natural" about room temperature, that's a tad anthropocentric of you

But if it is gaseous and can interact with your nose, then yes. The gaseous halogens are a prime example.

Doesn't the gas company have to add some kind of ingredient to natural gas in order for us to smell it

 

[Cabal]

Doesn't the gas company have to add some kind of ingredient to natural gas in order for us to smell it

Yup.

Thiol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanethiol

 

[Chesterton]

I'm going to be a pain and point out that there's nothing necessarily "natural" about room temperature, that's a tad anthropocentric of you

But if it is gaseous and can interact with your nose, then yes. The gaseous halogens are a prime example.

Unless I add a specific disclaimer otherwise, I am posting from the viewpoint of a human being.

 

[Cabal]

Unless I add a specific disclaimer otherwise, I am posting from the viewpoint of a human being.

Yeesh, the nerve of some people!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Unless I add a specific disclaimer otherwise, I am posting from the viewpoint of a human being.

Is there any other kind that post here

 

[Cabal]

Doesn't the gas company have to add some kind of ingredient to natural gas in order for us to smell it

There's probably an "Oh captan, mercaptan" pun in here somewhere....

 

[Cabal]

Is there any other kind that post here

People that claim to speak for God?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Uh... apart from the fact it has different properties than O, or O2,

I never claimed that it didn't . I said ozone has the funky smell, not any and all oxygen atoms/ions.

the fact it has two nuclei and elements are atoms (as you just defined them) means it can't be element as well as molecule. I've never once encountered a source that says a molecule can be an element.

Wikipedia, the keeper of all knowledge, has a list of chemical elements. Among them are molecules. Hydrogen is an element, whether its a lone proton or a diatomic molecule - yes, they have different chemical properties, but that doesn't mean it's not an element.

Even if you stuck to your proton number point, O2 has twice as many protons as O!

Which is why I said the proton number of its constituents is the same, not its total number of protons. We call ozone O[sub]3[/sub], not Ch.

 

[Cabal]

I never claimed that it didn't .

Well, that might put the kybosh on claiming they're all the same element, no? Seeing as they're all going to interact differently to each other? You can't say two particles are the same element and have them behave in radically different ways.

Wikipedia, the keeper of all knowledge, has a list of chemical elements. Among them are molecules. Hydrogen is an element, whether its a lone proton or a diatomic molecule - yes, they have different chemical properties, but that doesn't mean it's not an element.

Ok, you're gonna have to point them out to me, because I'm not seeing anything remotely resembling a molecule on that list. As far as I can see, the list is the data for lone atoms, no diatomics of any kind.

Which is why I said the proton number of its constituents is the same, not its total number of protons. We call ozone O[sub]3[/sub], not Ch.

Correct, my bad. You said.

As to whether it's an element... well, elements are just types of atoms, such that those with the same number of protons are the same element.

I'm personally a bit confused as to how you can say "elements are types of atoms" and then turn around and say that a molecule is an element...

 

[bigbadwilf]

There's probably an "Oh captan, mercaptan" pun in here somewhere....

Ouch, rotten cabbages to you.

On an aside, in November 2009 one gas supplier added a considerable excess of methyl mercaptan to methane that finished up being used in the San Fransisco Bay area.
They added so much that it was detectable (i.e. concentration above 0.2 ppm) after the methane had been burned off. The people who were using it crashed every gas leak hotline in the city...

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Well, that might put the kybosh on claiming they're all the same element, no? Seeing as they're all going to interact differently to each other? You can't say two particles are the same element and have them behave in radically different ways.

Why not? H and H[sup]-[/sup] are both elements, even to you, yet they behave differently: the latter, for instance, can be manipulated by EM fields, unlike the former. Does that mean ionized monoatomic Hydrogen is a different element to neutral monoatomic Hydrogen?

Moreover, isotopes of Hydrogen (such as deuterium and tritium) behave differently to Hydrogen, and these differences have proven very useful. But does that mean isotopes of Hydrogen count as different elements?

Ok, you're gonna have to point them out to me, because I'm not seeing anything remotely resembling a molecule on that list. As far as I can see, the list is the data for lone atoms, no diatomics of any kind.

Since solids are necessarily molecular, and since elements have to be monoatomic, how can elements be ascribed melting points?

I'm personally a bit confused as to how you can say "elements are types of atoms" and then turn around and say that a molecule is an element...

Because elements are types of atoms, not atoms themselves.