Ask a Different Christian Philosopher a Question

[Schalke Fan]

I would like an opinion on a matter I've considered for an extended amount of time. So, I believe in an all knowing all powerful God who created all things. I believe the Bible as well. However, because I believe in an omniscient omnipotent God, I am left confused on the matter of free will. If a God made me and knew everything about me and every decision I would make, how then, has he not effectively made my decisions for me? And before you say that just because someone knows something will happen doesn't mean they caused it, my rebuttal is this: if I know in the same way God knows something is going to happen and I have the power to influence it and I do not influence it, I have influenced it in my absence of effort due to my power and knowledge of the outcome of my decision. just curious what you all have to say, thanks

 

[bhsmte]

I would like an opinion on a matter I've considered for an extended amount of time. So, I believe in an all knowing all powerful God who created all things. I believe the Bible as well. However, because I believe in an omniscient omnipotent God, I am left confused on the matter of free will. If a God made me and knew everything about me and every decision I would make, how then, has he not effectively made my decisions for me? And before you say that just because someone knows something will happen doesn't mean they caused it, my rebuttal is this: if I know in the same way God knows something is going to happen and I have the power to influence it and I do not influence it, I have influenced it in my absence of effort due to my power and knowledge of the outcome of my decision. just curious what you all have to say, thanks

Excellent question.

 

[bhsmte]

I would like an opinion on a matter I've considered for an extended amount of time. So, I believe in an all knowing all powerful God who created all things. I believe the Bible as well. However, because I believe in an omniscient omnipotent God, I am left confused on the matter of free will. If a God made me and knew everything about me and every decision I would make, how then, has he not effectively made my decisions for me? And before you say that just because someone knows something will happen doesn't mean they caused it, my rebuttal is this: if I know in the same way God knows something is going to happen and I have the power to influence it and I do not influence it, I have influenced it in my absence of effort due to my power and knowledge of the outcome of my decision. just curious what you all have to say, thanks

I have always wondered, how a being with such powers, that knows ahead of time what you will do and the choices you will make, also has instilled free will (free choice) into their creation.

To me, if someone truly has freedom of choice and is not pre programmed by an outside force, than that would mean, some of the choices people make would surprise God, if they were really free choices.

 

[durangodawood]

...some of the choices people make would surprise God, if they were really free choices.

By this logic, God himself is locked into "the plan" and lacks free will.

 

[bhsmte]

By this logic, God himself is locked into "the plan" and lacks free will.

But, if people really had free will and free choice, there would be no predetermined plan. If the plan was predetermined, free will goes out the window.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

But, if people really had free will and free choice, there would be no predetermined plan. If the plan was predetermined, free will goes out the window.

The plan was to not have a plan. And say there was a plan so everyone would try and figure out this plan. And because there's no plan everyone's guess as to what the plan is, was, and ever will be is 100% accurate because the plan was planned to be unplanned.

 

[zippy2006]

And before you say that just because someone knows something will happen doesn't mean they caused it, my rebuttal is this: if I know in the same way God knows something is going to happen and I have the power to influence it and I do not influence it, I have influenced it in my absence of effort due to my power and knowledge of the outcome of my decision. just curious what you all have to say, thanks

Regarding your rebuttal: allowing something to happen, even if I have the ability to prevent it, is not the same as causing that something to happen. The fact that God doesn't prevent you from making a decision doesn't mean that he makes decisions for you.

Your question is essentially about the compatibility of God's foreknowledge with future contingent events--of whether God's foreknowledge of an event necessitates that event. It is an age-old question that most everyone in the history of religion has taken a swing at. A good place to begin is SEP's article, Foreknowledge and Free Will.

How are thinking and actually committing the action of say lust considered the same thing in a Christian viewpoint?

They aren't the same thing.

But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:28)​

Committing adultery in one's heart is not the same thing as committing adultery in one's outward actions, yet both are sins and both transgress the commandment. Obviously committing adultery in one's outward actions is a graver sin for the simple fact that it includes and adds to the sin of adultery in the heart.

 

[com7fy8]

The plan was to not have a plan. And say there was a plan so everyone would try and figure out this plan. And because there's no plan everyone's guess as to what the plan is, was, and ever will be is 100% accurate because the plan was planned to be unplanned.

Not all people believe that people with "free will" in some way "control God". And the Bible says,

"God resists the proud", in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5. So, if God resists us in our pride, He does not honor any free will that we might have.

Free will can be just an idol of ego wanting to believe we humans have the control we want to think we do.

Jesus says, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let Him deny Himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

To me, personally, denying myself means I leave behind my own ego's free will, and now I am sacrificed to Jesus and all He pleases to do with me, even at every moment. And this does not make me a puppet, but alive in His love. Before Christ, I was a puppet of my own free will and stupidity, and I was dead in sin > Ephesians 2:1-2 < so, in my free will as a sinner I was dead, therefore indeed a puppet!! My will was free from God, love-dead.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Committing adultery in one's heart is not the same thing as committing adultery in one's outward actions, yet both are sins and both transgress the commandment. Obviously committing adultery in one's outward actions is a graver sin for the simple fact that it includes and adds to the sin of adultery in the heart.

What is the punishment for both?

 

[zippy2006]

What is the punishment for both?

As they are not the same thing, they obviously do not have the same punishment. God is just; he does not punish a lesser sin in the same way he punishes a graver sin.

 

[com7fy8]

There now can be forgiveness, instead of punishment, because of Jesus dying for our sins, on the cross.

Instead of getting punished, God wants us to repent of wrong things and be corrected (Hebrews 12:4-11) and live in His love, instead > 1 John 4:17-18.

But if we sin, there can be the built-in "punishment" of how we deeply can suffer . . . because of staying in the weakness of our pleasure seeking so then we can be weak enough to suffer the pain also and failing in relationships.

Only in God's love can we get true strength to keep clear of mental and physical adultery. Even if we just think about it, this can have us in weakness. But God's love has us busy with caring for others, instead of using people for pleasure. And this is safer, emotionally, and so more enjoyable to be with our Father and Jesus and one another in God's love

 

[GrimKingGrim]

As they are not the same thing, they obviously do not have the same punishment. God is just; he does not punish a lesser sin in the same way he punishes a graver sin.

What is the punishment of sin?

 

[zippy2006]

What is the punishment of sin?

Mortal sin is punishable by death, and a felony is punishable by imprisonment. To say that all felonies are the same because they all result in imprisonment would be false. Neither Heaven nor Hell are fundamentally unilateral realities.

Yet not all acts of lust are mortal sins, and thus not every act of lust incurs a debt of eternal punishment (see here and here).

 

[Percivale]

I would like an opinion on a matter I've considered for an extended amount of time. So, I believe in an all knowing all powerful God who created all things. I believe the Bible as well. However, because I believe in an omniscient omnipotent God, I am left confused on the matter of free will. If a God made me and knew everything about me and every decision I would make, how then, has he not effectively made my decisions for me? And before you say that just because someone knows something will happen doesn't mean they caused it, my rebuttal is this: if I know in the same way God knows something is going to happen and I have the power to influence it and I do not influence it, I have influenced it in my absence of effort due to my power and knowledge of the outcome of my decision. just curious what you all have to say, thanks

God could have created you such that you made different choices; ultimately he has every bit as much control over our choices as an author has over the characters in his book. But from our perspective, we have the freedom to choose, based on our own desires and knowledge. The more free someone's choices is, the more predictable it is to someone who knows that person. Freedom and randomness are totally unrelated. A person's choices are most random when he is drunk or delirious, but those are the very times he is least free.
Sovereignty is God's perspective, free will is ours.

 

[Percivale]

What is the punishment of sin?

Sin is punished by its natural consequences. Every sin does damage to ourselves, and/or others, and a pattern of sin leads to one becoming incapable of true happiness. I believe the suffering we call hell is simply natural consequences. Selfishness leads to not getting along with others and thus being either excluded or living in conflict. Having a wrong order of values leads to chasing things that do not satisfy, causing increasing frustration.

 

[durangodawood]

......The fact that God doesn't prevent you from making a decision doesn't mean that he makes decisions for you.......

Something prevents you from making a decision, if your path is ordained.
What thing is that?

 

[Percivale]

Something prevents you from making a decision, if your path is ordained.
What thing is that?

nothing, unless you are told what your choice will be. God's foreknowledge does not affect our decision-making process. Similarly, would the possibility of time travel destroy free will?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Sin is punished by its natural consequences. Every sin does damage to ourselves, and/or others, and a pattern of sin leads to one becoming incapable of true happiness. I believe the suffering we call hell is simply natural consequences. Selfishness leads to not getting along with others and thus being either excluded or living in conflict. Having a wrong order of values leads to chasing things that do not satisfy, causing increasing frustration.

So nobody is just gonna say "the punishment for sin is death" because?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Mortal sin is punishable by death, and a felony is punishable by imprisonment. To say that all felonies are the same because they all result in imprisonment would be false.

Ooh so close. But not the same. All felonies do get imprisonment is correct but the time of imprisonment is different each.

Tell me how long do you stay dead for a minor sin since you wanna make this comparison?

 

[durangodawood]

nothing, unless you are told what your choice will be. God's foreknowledge does not affect our decision-making process. Similarly, would the possibility of time travel destroy free will?

Time travel would not "destroy" free will. It might reveal we never had it, though.
Similarly, if our path is already set through the course of a knowable future, that would certainly imply that no options are really on the table.