As riot raged at Capitol, Trump tried to call senators to overturn election

[cow451]

I've recently had a lot to do with courts, and I must say I have lost faith in the Westminster court system as a whole.
I don't want to come across as being wilfully ignorant, but I've found the first casualty in any conflict is the truth.

Then you are probably aware that Judges don't want to have their time (or the Court's) wasted with half-baked paranoid conspiracy theories.

 

[Dan1988]

That is not how facts work.

Sorry, but i don't know how facts work. They are mysterious things which most people reject, so they don't work most of the time.

 

[whatbogsends]

You describe the messed up human condition, as being the result of not possessing the facts. The big problem with your view is (how does one know what facts are , as opposed to lies). Where can one turn to, to find the facts in any matter when the world is full of lies and deception.

The reality is, every individual embraces whatever truth or facts suit them best. So there is no such thing as absolute truth or absolute facts in this world, we create our own truth and our own facts as we see fit. Today every opinion and and belief system is equally relative and valid, so you need to define what you mean by facts before you can even attempt to convince another autonomous individual to accept your theory.

In summary, everybody has their own opinion and most will fight you to the death if you try to convince them that they may be wrong. So it's virtually impossible to convince anyone to join you in what you believe to be facts or your truth. Everyone like to have the freedom to choose what they believe and what they reject as falsehood or lies.

Everyone is born with a need to fight for something, it's gives us a sense of purpose, justice and belonging. This is why the world has been soaked in blood since the beginning, we have countless factions pitted against each other ideologies and beliefs. The bloodshed has always been over forcing others to live under your rule, since we believe we deserve to rule as we are right and they are wrong.

The world will continue as it always has, no amount of convincing will ever result in someone abandoning their beliefs to conform to yours.

While it's true that it may be difficult to discern the truth about some factual matters, it's absolutely false that every opinion or belief system is equally valid, and absolutely false that there's no absolute truth.

Being unable to discern truth doesn't prevent truth from existing.

 

[cow451]

Sorry, but i don't know how facts work.

Evidently

 

[Dan1988]

Intestinal gas is hard to investigate and that's what the "Steal" was equivalent to.

All we see on the news down here, is poor old Trump being persecuted by the media. He calls it a witch hunt and it sure looks like one.
If he's just a mad egotistic man, who has lost his way. Why is everyone so scared of him, so much so that they try to shut down everything he says. It leaves the whole world to suspect that he was going to expose some dirty laundry before they shut him down and told us the man is suffering from some kind of mental illness but he's a sharp as a tac.

 

[Dan1988]

While it's true that it may be difficult to discern the truth about some factual matters, it's absolutely false that every opinion or belief system is equally valid, and absolutely false that there's no absolute truth.

Being unable to discern truth doesn't prevent truth from existing.

I must agree with you, the truth is out there somewhere in the universe but how to find it is another matter altogether.

 

[cow451]

All we see on the news down here, is poor old Trump being persecuted by the media. He calls it a witch hunt and it sure looks like one.
If he's just a mad egotistic man, who has lost his way. Why is everyone so scared of him, so much so that they try to shut down everything he says. It leaves the whole world to suspect that he was going to expose some dirty laundry before they shut him down and told us the man is suffering from some kind of mental illness but he's a sharp as a tac.

Having noted his celebrity and business career for forty years, I can confidently say that you have fallen for the Trump confidence game.

 

[Pommer]

I must agree with you, the truth is out there somewhere in the universe but how to find it is another matter altogether.

Well, I’m sure that we all thank you for commiserating with us here over the loss of the Truth, even into the wee hours.

 

[Dan1988]

Who paid the courts to stop investigating?

I don't know who's involved, but Trump sounds like he knows exactly who they are. I'm only going by everything he has said. I don't believe he would be kicking up so much dust if there was no foul play involved.
The man is not motivated by money, he has more than enough to last ten lifetimes, his motivation is his love for his country and you gotta love him for that.

 

[cow451]

I don't know who's involved, but Trump sounds like he knows exactly who they are. I'm only going by everything he has said. I don't believe he would be kicking up so much dust if there was no foul play involved.
The man is not motivated by money, he has more than enough to last ten lifetimes, his motivation is his love for his country and you gotta love him for that.

If he had evidence that any of these judges accepted bribes, the DOJ would have been all over it. So, your faith in Trump actually knowing something is funny. An old Trump con is the "I got a bombshell.... really big.... you're going to be amazed.... " and then a 'nothingberder' follows. He just makes up crap and his followers believe it. Win one for the Grifter.

 

[Dan1988]

Then you are probably aware that Judges don't want to have their time (or the Court's) wasted with half-baked paranoid conspiracy theories.

No quite, what I have noticed is they don't like dealing with difficult cases. They like the easy black and white ones, which don't take any energy or resources. I found them to be either lazy or unwilling to deal with the cold hard facts.

 

[Pommer]

I don't know who's involved, but Trump sounds like he knows exactly who they are. I'm only going by everything he has said. I don't believe he would be kicking up so much dust if there was no foul play involved.
The man is not motivated by money, he has more than enough to last ten lifetimes, his motivation is his love for his country and you gotta love him for that.

Maybe the “investigations” should start with the Iowa caucuses of 2016 that Mr Trump had claimed Ted Cruz only won because of “fraud”?

 

[whatbogsends]

I don't know who's involved, but Trump sounds like he knows exactly who they are. I'm only going by everything he has said. I don't believe he would be kicking up so much dust if there was no foul play involved.
The man is not motivated by money, he has more than enough to last ten lifetimes, his motivation is his love for his country and you gotta love him for that.

Trump was "kicking up dust" about fraud before a single vote was cast. It was clear that he would claim fraud if he lost the election. He did the same thing in 2016, but stopped complaining after he won the election.

As far as money is concerned, you're out of your mind if you think he's not motivated by money. Money and power are his only concerns. His façade of "love of his country" is transparent. How anyone falls for that is beyond me. The fact that you've bought into that lie speaks to me of your discernment.

 

[Pommer]

No quite, what I have noticed is they don't like dealing with difficult cases. They like the easy black and white ones, which don't take any energy or resources. I found them to be either lazy or unwilling to deal with the cold hard facts.

Well, I guess that it is a good thing that you’re in your own country, holding your judges and courts to account.

 

[Dan1988]

Trump was "kicking up dust" about fraud before a single vote was cast. It was clear that he would claim fraud if he lost the election. He did the same thing in 2016, but stopped complaining after he won the election.

As far as money is concerned, you're out of your mind if you think he's not motivated by money. Money and power are his only concerns. His façade of "love of his country" is transparent. How anyone falls for that is beyond me. The fact that you've bought into that lie speaks to me of your discernment.

Getting to the truth of any matter is becoming harder and harder to do these days. We have so many opposing voices, all accusing the others of lies, fraud and hypocrisy.
What I've observed in this case, is loudest and most aggressive voices get all the attention, likes and followers.
I get the sense that most ordinary people don't care about the truth or what's right and wrong. It's all about what's cool and popular, people are afraid to admit what they really feel.

 

[cow451]

No quite, what I have noticed is they don't like dealing with difficult cases. They like the easy black and white ones, which don't take any energy or resources. I found them to be either lazy or unwilling to deal with the cold hard facts.

The Trump cases were easy because the "evidence" was so lacking, they were easy to toss.

 

[Belk]

Sorry, but i don't know how facts work. They are mysterious things which most people reject, so they don't work most of the time.

Not to worry, it is a common affliction.

 

[Gene2memE]

It's quite simple, the courts heard their claims but they were paid to stop any investigation. So there was no investigation and the matter was swept under the carpet, now you know why the Republicans are hell bent on revenge.

Your response to claims being dismissed without evidence, is to make a claim without evidence? Great....

It's not just one simple claim either, but a full blown conspiracy claim. That seven different judges - including one Trump Administration appointee and multiple other appointees from Republican administrations - were paid off. And that subsequent state and federal courts, up to and including the Supreme Court, were paid off as well.

So, I'm to believe that either:

No significant fraud took place, or
Significant fraud took place, and the unsupported claims of such were dismissed because all the courts were paid off to stop any investigation.

Here's the rub on this: courts don't investigate things. They rule on the evidence presented to them by external investigators.

So, your conspiracy theory makes no sense.

 

[A2SG]

Getting to the truth of any matter is becoming harder and harder to do these days. We have so many opposing voices, all accusing the others of lies, fraud and hypocrisy.
What I've observed in this case, is loudest and most aggressive voices get all the attention, likes and followers.
I get the sense that most ordinary people don't care about the truth or what's right and wrong. It's all about what's cool and popular, people are afraid to admit what they really feel.

Then let's forget about what is or isn't "cool" or "popular", or what gets the most likes, or what people may or may believe.

Let's use facts, things we can verify.

Was there massive, widespread fraud?

No.

And I say that because there is no evidence of it. None. Trump's lawyers have tried to argue there was fraud in court case after court case, all of which where thrown out for lack of evidence.

Those are the facts.

-- A2SG, feel free to present any facts you know of to dispute this...but leave any beliefs, suppositions, questions or theories by the curb where they belong.....

 

[LightLoveHope]

You describe the messed up human condition, as being the result of not possessing the facts. The big problem with your view is (how does one know what facts are , as opposed to lies). Where can one turn to, to find the facts in any matter when the world is full of lies and deception.

The reality is, every individual embraces whatever truth or facts suit them best. So there is no such thing as absolute truth or absolute facts in this world, we create our own truth and our own facts as we see fit. Today every opinion and and belief system is equally relative and valid, so you need to define what you mean by facts before you can even attempt to convince another autonomous individual to accept your theory.

In summary, everybody has their own opinion and most will fight you to the death if you try to convince them that they may be wrong. So it's virtually impossible to convince anyone to join you in what you believe to be facts or your truth. Everyone like to have the freedom to choose what they believe and what they reject as falsehood or lies.

Everyone is born with a need to fight for something, it's gives us a sense of purpose, justice and belonging. This is why the world has been soaked in blood since the beginning, we have countless factions pitted against each other ideologies and beliefs. The bloodshed has always been over forcing others to live under your rule, since we believe we deserve to rule as we are right and they are wrong.

The world will continue as it always has, no amount of convincing will ever result in someone abandoning their beliefs to conform to yours.

"So it's virtually impossible to convince anyone to join you"

As believers we know Jesus convinced a sinner, ourselves to repent and follow Him based on the information and conviction he gave us.

Initially facts find opposition, because the existing framework exists because it is robust.
Over time, argument, and consideration the facts shift opinion and where people are at as a group.

God bless you