As riot raged at Capitol, Trump tried to call senators to overturn election

[KCfromNC]

I believe there was a conspiracy to bring Trump down, and many Republicans colluded.

I think that's well understood. What is more in question is why anyone would believe such a thing despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[KCfromNC]

The best way to shut down an investigation, is to refuse to examine and investigate the evidence.

Another way, this one used by Donald's legal team, is to have zero evidence of their claims in the first place.

 

[cow451]

Most of the world loves President Trump, the only countries who hate his are North Korea, Cuba, Russia, Iran and China. That's about half of the world, the rest of us love him and we believe him when he says that Biden and Harris stole the election.

Then maybe these foreign countries can explain who coordinated the most elaborate conspiracy in history and why REPUBLICANS would conspire with Democrats to take down the President and turn the Senate over to the Democrats. Because you clearly cannot.

 

[cow451]

The best way to shut down an investigation, is to refuse to examine and investigate the evidence. I don't know why the courts decided to do this, but I do have my opinion which I can't share as it not PC

Does it involve the letter Q?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How were the REPUBLICANS, already in office going to benefit financially from giving up the White House and Senate? Logic says the opposite would be true.

Oooh! It's a deep deep and convoluted conspiracy. That's how we know that Trump won!

 

[Gene2memE]

The best way to shut down an investigation, is to refuse to examine and investigate the evidence.

Judges evaluate the evidence brought before them. In all of those cases I mentioned, the judges found that the evidence presented was insufficient to support any claims of significant electoral fraud.

I don't know why the courts decided to do this,

I do. It was because when they had their day in court, the plaintiffs couldn't support anything that they claimed.

but I do have my opinion which I can't share as it not PC

Oh please. Non-PC opinions are shared here all the time. For some posters, its basically all they do.

So tell us, why do you think the courts heard their claims and decided that there wasn't electoral fraud going on?

 

[SimplyMe]

I miss Poe, and love the fact I was here for when his law was made here.

Yes, I also miss Nathan Poe. It seems the forums were a better place back then.

 

[Dan1988]

Find a reputable polling organization that polls the rest of the world...until then, I'll take the 13 over your opinion.

Your welcome to trust the polls, but I don't as they have a 90% fail rate. Just think of all the recent election polls, they tried to convince us that Hilary would win the 2016 election by a landslide. So, yeah

 

[Dan1988]

The decisions are available on line. We can read them and many of us have done so. They examined the evidence presented and found it sorely lacking.

A good expensive lawyer can convince you that black is white.

 

[Dan1988]

Except you ignore that, even if we ignore the courts (that did examine the evidence and found it wanting, was appealed and they found the original judge ruled properly, etc.), there is Trump's DoJ that examined and found no evidence; there is Homeland Security, which is part of Trump's administration and run by his appointees, that found no evidence; there are the various state law enforcement agencies that investigated and found no evidence; there were the independent (including international) observers who saw no evidence of fraud occurring. The evidence is there that it was a fair election

Part of the issue, when you look at all the groups that examined the election -- with the sheer number of people that would have to participate in this type of fraud -- more than a handful of people would have come forward to give first hand testimony of the fraud -- how either they can't live with what they did (and get immunity for their cooperation) or that testify of how they were approached to commit fraud.

I personally don't buy an argument, based on how popular it is in the mainstream media. It's like saying McDonalds fast food must be healthy because it's so popular all over the world.

 

[whatbogsends]

The best way to shut down an investigation, is to refuse to examine and investigate the evidence. I don't know why the courts decided to do this, but I do have my opinion which I can't share as it not PC

I don't know why you keep making false claims about what the courts have done, but i have my opinion which i can't share as it's against forum rules.

 

[whatbogsends]

The answer to propoganda is facts, which cannot be argued around.
What you will discover though to blunt the idea of facts have power, people have started to invent their own reality. It is how flat earthers stay flat earthers, or climate change deniers stay climate change deniers, or covid-19 deniers stay covid-19 deniers.

In the past if you took a particular point of view it could lead to ones death by disease, starvation, war or something else. Life was brutal. In our generation and world it is clear many beliefs do not change very much in ones world, so in a way it is harmless but it can bring belonging and purpose to ones life. One problem with the human condition is we are designed for a mission, a purpose, a battle and we live for challenge. You hear it in the depressed young woman who now lives for their child, or the fanatic religious zealot who fighting the infidel, or the christian standing against the hordes of liberals.

Like many cultures having an enemy outside the country helps create a blame culture and focus. But this simple emotional focus has gone, to be replaced with the democrats and for the left the capitalists or republicans or anyone who holds an authority position.

The problem with these emotionally driven idiologies is they have no boundaries. So defunding the police is absurd, but integrating the police in communities works. Equally dealing with drug culture is important to contain dysfunctional people who threaten the safety of ordinary folk and society. But boundaries appear to be the current hate idea, where as they define what is a functional life and one going down the tubes.

Too strong individualism leaves the needy far behind, and when the needy make up 20% of the population it matters. When the needy starts to reach 40% you know its going to cause instability and social action. But who is strong enough to see the reality and address it?

Trump is a messenger of a divide, not a solution.
God bless you

Trump supporters have shown us that propaganda can overcome facts.

All you need to do is repeat the falsehoods and deny the facts and you're set.

 

[Dan1988]

The answer to propoganda is facts, which cannot be argued around.
What you will discover though to blunt the idea of facts have power, people have started to invent their own reality. It is how flat earthers stay flat earthers, or climate change deniers stay climate change deniers, or covid-19 deniers stay covid-19 deniers.

In the past if you took a particular point of view it could lead to ones death by disease, starvation, war or something else. Life was brutal. In our generation and world it is clear many beliefs do not change very much in ones world, so in a way it is harmless but it can bring belonging and purpose to ones life. One problem with the human condition is we are designed for a mission, a purpose, a battle and we live for challenge. You hear it in the depressed young woman who now lives for their child, or the fanatic religious zealot who fighting the infidel, or the christian standing against the hordes of liberals.

Like many cultures having an enemy outside the country helps create a blame culture and focus. But this simple emotional focus has gone, to be replaced with the democrats and for the left the capitalists or republicans or anyone who holds an authority position.

The problem with these emotionally driven idiologies is they have no boundaries. So defunding the police is absurd, but integrating the police in communities works. Equally dealing with drug culture is important to contain dysfunctional people who threaten the safety of ordinary folk and society. But boundaries appear to be the current hate idea, where as they define what is a functional life and one going down the tubes.

Too strong individualism leaves the needy far behind, and when the needy make up 20% of the population it matters. When the needy starts to reach 40% you know its going to cause instability and social action. But who is strong enough to see the reality and address it?

Trump is a messenger of a divide, not a solution.
God bless you

You describe the messed up human condition, as being the result of not possessing the facts. The big problem with your view is (how does one know what facts are , as opposed to lies). Where can one turn to, to find the facts in any matter when the world is full of lies and deception.

The reality is, every individual embraces whatever truth or facts suit them best. So there is no such thing as absolute truth or absolute facts in this world, we create our own truth and our own facts as we see fit. Today every opinion and and belief system is equally relative and valid, so you need to define what you mean by facts before you can even attempt to convince another autonomous individual to accept your theory.

In summary, everybody has their own opinion and most will fight you to the death if you try to convince them that they may be wrong. So it's virtually impossible to convince anyone to join you in what you believe to be facts or your truth. Everyone like to have the freedom to choose what they believe and what they reject as falsehood or lies.

Everyone is born with a need to fight for something, it's gives us a sense of purpose, justice and belonging. This is why the world has been soaked in blood since the beginning, we have countless factions pitted against each other ideologies and beliefs. The bloodshed has always been over forcing others to live under your rule, since we believe we deserve to rule as we are right and they are wrong.

The world will continue as it always has, no amount of convincing will ever result in someone abandoning their beliefs to conform to yours.

 

[Belk]

A good expensive lawyer can convince you that black is white.

That's nice. Does not change the fact that the judges examined the evidence.

 

[Belk]

You describe the messed up human condition, as being the result of not possessing the facts. The big problem with your view is (how does one know what facts are , as opposed to lies). Where can one turn to, to find the facts in any matter when the world is full of lies and deception.

The reality is, every individual embraces whatever truth or facts suit them best. So there is no such thing as absolute truth or absolute facts in this world, we create our own truth and our own facts as we see fit. Today every opinion and and belief system is equally relative and valid, so you need to define what you mean by facts before you can even attempt to convince another autonomous individual to accept your theory.

In summary, everybody has their own opinion and most will fight you to the death if you try to convince them that they may be wrong. So it's virtually impossible to convince anyone to join you in what you believe to be facts or your truth. Everyone like to have the freedom to choose what they believe and what they reject as falsehood or lies.

Everyone is born with a need to fight for something, it's gives us a sense of purpose, justice and belonging. This is why the world has been soaked in blood since the beginning, we have countless factions pitted against each other ideologies and beliefs. The bloodshed has always been over forcing others to live under your rule, since we believe we deserve to rule as we are right and they are wrong.

The world will continue as it always has, no amount of convincing will ever result in someone abandoning their beliefs to conform to yours.

That is not how facts work.

 

[Dan1988]

Did you actually read any of the court decisions?

I've recently had a lot to do with courts, and I must say I have lost faith in the Westminster court system as a whole.
I don't want to come across as being wilfully ignorant, but I've found the first casualty in any conflict is the truth.

 

[cow451]

It's quite simple, the courts heard their claims but they were paid to stop any investigation. So there was no investigation and the matter was swept under the carpet, now you know why the Republicans are hell bent on revenge.

Intestinal gas is hard to investigate and that's what the "Steal" was equivalent to.

 

[Dan1988]

I think that's well understood. What is more in question is why anyone would believe such a thing despite all the evidence to the contrary.

I don't believe that anyone on this forum has been privileged to examine any actual evidence. So I don't believe that any of us is in a position to draw to a firm conclusion on the matter.
This has to be the most important legal matter in modern history, as it will effect the whole world. If your trading partners lose confidence in the integrity of your electrol system and democratically elected government. They may decide to invest elsewhere and your economy would collapse.

 

[cow451]

It's quite simple, the courts heard their claims but they were paid to stop any investigation. So there was no investigation and the matter was swept under the carpet, now you know why the Republicans are hell bent on revenge.

Who paid the courts to stop investigating?

 

[cow451]

I don't know why you keep making false claims about what the courts have done, but i have my opinion which i can't share as it's against forum rules.

Does it have to do with one letter of the alphabet?