Arnold Murray's Teaching

[Watchman_2]

Daniel 9:27 says he (the prince who shall come, the Antichrist man) will confirm the covenant for one week - 7 years. In Deuteronomy 31:9-10 below, what is the interval for confirming the covenant by reading the law before all Israel?

Deuteronmy 31:9And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.
10And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
11When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

In Revelation 12:6 and 12:14, the "1260 days" plus "the time, times, and half times" adds up to 7 years.

The time is shortened. See Mat. 24:22, Rev. 9:5.

What empire, following the Greek empire, is followed by the legs of iron in the Daniel 2 statue image? And of what empire were the soldiers who put Jesus on the cross?

Irrelevant. The Roman Empire of old is never revived.

Satan comes up among ten kings of the fourth empire in Daniel 7?

Read it again -- comes 'after'.

The Antichrist and the False prophet are cast into the lake of fire at the beginning of the 1000 years. Satan is not cast into the lake of fire until the end of the 1000 years.

I already educated you on this. The Antichrist and false prophet are roles that Satan plays in this flesh dispensation of time. Satan will not be accorded these roles at the end of the Lord's day when he is released to deceive the nations again.

 

[Watchman_2]

It is the number of his name, not the number of events. It says "name" in the Bible. 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

See Rev. 13:18. The etymplogy of the word 'count' determines that we are counting events in time.

Do you disagree that one of Adonikam's last three sons was number 666?

What is the name of his last son?

Not relevant. See etymology of the word 'count' in Rev. 13:18.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Are you saying some people have the mark in their "right" hand right now?

How did it get there?

Hand and forehead are symbolic for work and belief. It is not a literal 'mark' that people receive. See Eze. 13:18-23, 2 Thes. 2. People can receive the mark at anytime. People can be doing Satan's work by spreading Satan's Doctrine at anytime.

For instance, people that believe in Rapture have taken the mark of the beast. People that teach Rapture are doing Satan's work.

 

[Watchman_2]

Are you saying that BC is the "first age" and AD is the "second age" ?
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I already explained it to you. See Post No. 105.

Until you understand the first age, you will continue to be lost regarding eschatology. The 1/3 that rebelled with Satan in the first age mainly comprise the endtime Christian church. God needs to test them to see if they will go for Satan again.

 

[Douggg]

Hand and forehead are symbolic for work and belief. It is not a literal 'mark' that people receive. See Eze. 13:18-23, 2 Thes. 2. People can receive the mark at anytime. People can be doing Satan's work by spreading Satan's Doctrine at anytime.

For instance, people that believe in Rapture have taken the mark of the beast. People that teach Rapture are doing Satan's work.

When the enforcement to buy and sale comes, how can the clerk at Wal-Mark determine whether a person has the mark in the "right" hand or not?

 

[Watchman_2]

When the enforcement to buy and sale comes, how can the clerk at Wal-Mark determine whether a person has the mark in the "right" hand or not?

Won't have to -- if the customer does not have Devil dollars, won't be doing any purchasing at Walmart. One will not have money unless one swears allegiance to Satan. There will be one-world currency.

 

[Douggg]

Won't have to -- if the customer does not have Devil dollars, won't be doing any purchasing at Walmart. One will not have money unless one swears allegiance to Satan. There will be one-world currency.

Devil dollars are not mentioned in the bible. What the bible says that without the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name, a person cannot buy or sell.

Again, how is the clerk at Walmart going to determine if a person has the mark in their "right" hand ?

 

[Douggg]

I already explained it to you. See Post No. 105.

Until you understand the first age, you will continue to be lost regarding eschatology. The 1/3 that rebelled with Satan in the first age mainly comprise the endtime Christian church. God needs to test them to see if they will go for Satan again.

How many ages are there in your thinking and what is their beginning and ending?

 

[Watchman_2]

Devil dollars are not mentioned in the bible. What the bible says that without the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of his name, a person cannot buy or sell.

I already explained Rev. 13:17 to you. The 'mark' is a belief that Christ is the first on the scene to redeem them. 'Name' is the authority of the beast. The 'number of his name' means that a person believes that it is Christ that appears at that event in time [6th seal, 6th trump, or 6th vial].

Again, how is the clerk at Walmart going to determine if a person has the mark in their "right" hand ?

See previous post.

If it were a literal mark [like a chip placed in forearm or head], it could not be received until Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven and are firmly in control of the entire world. But, Rev. 16:1 [as well as Eze. 13 and 2 Thes. 2] proves that the mark is received prior to Satan's and his angels' arrival.

Besides, Satan's motive is to deceive the whole world [Rev. 12:9]. If they held people down and implanted chips, they would not deceive the recipient or anyone else. So, the entire concept of a literal mark is pure nonsense.

Satan gains control peaceably. See Dan. 11:21. The world's gov'ts hand over financial authority to him.

 

[Watchman_2]

How many ages are there in your thinking and what is their beginning and ending?

It is not my thinking at all -- the Bible informs us. See 2 Pet. 3. See Post. No. 105.

 

[Douggg]

If it were a literal mark [like a chip placed in forearm or head], it could not be received until Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven and are firmly in control of the entire world. But, Rev. 16:1 [as well as Eze. 13 and 2 Thes. 2] proves that the mark is received prior to Satan's and his angels' arrival.

Besides, Satan's motive is to deceive the whole world [Rev. 12:9]. If they held people down and implanted chips, they would not deceive the recipient or anyone else. So, the entire concept of a literal mark is pure nonsense.

Satan gains control peaceably. See Dan. 11:21. The world's gov'ts hand over financial authority to him.

You evaded my question. I am not saying that the mark has to be a chip.
It may be a chip. I don't know.

Again, how does the clerk in Walmart detect a person has a mark in the "right" hand in order to sell that person some merchandise?

The fact that the mark will be in the "right" as opposed to the "left" indicates that it is a physical mark of some sort.

 

[Watchman_2]

You evaded my question. I am not saying that the mark has to be a chip.
It may be a chip. I don't know.

Again, how does the clerk in Walmart detect a person has a mark in the "right" hand in order to sell that person some merchandise?

The fact that the mark will be in the "right" as opposed to the "left" indicates that it is a physical mark of some sort.

I did not evade your question. I informed you that part of the one-world order is a one-world currency. One does not have any money unless one swears allegiance to the beast.

So, a Walmart clerk would only accept Devil dollars -- not scan for a chip.

The 'right' arm is symbolic of the arm one works with primarily. It is never a physical mark as Rev. 16:1 proves.

 

[Douggg]

It is not my thinking at all -- the Bible informs us. See 2 Pet. 3. See Post. No. 105.

This is what you wrote in Post No. 105...

"So, what one can glean from scripture regarding the first age, it was finished off by a flood, which fully destroyed it. One has two floods to choose from."

You wrote that the first age was finished off by a flood.

However, in Post No. 135, you write something different concerning the end of the first age. You write that the beginning of the second age is at Christ's first advent. So I am asking from you when does the first age begin and when does it end? When does the second age begin and when does it end?

When did Satan rebel?? It was during the first age! Verses 1-4 are in the first age.

What marks the beginning of this second age in Rev. 12?? It is v. 5 -Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

[Douggg]

I did not evade your question. I informed you that part of the one-world order is a one-world currency. One does not have any money unless one swears allegiance to the beast.

So, a Walmart clerk would only accept Devil dollars -- not scan for a chip.

The 'right' arm is symbolic of the arm one works with primarily. It is never a physical mark as Rev. 16:1 proves.

The kind of dollars is another issue. The person has to have the mark - not the type of dollars - to buy or sell. How does the clerk detect the mark on the "right" hand, without it being something physical, such as a tattoo or chip?

 

[Watchman_2]

This is what you wrote in Post No. 105...

"So, what one can glean from scripture regarding the first age, it was finished off by a flood, which fully destroyed it. One has two floods to choose from."

You wrote that the first age was finished off by a flood.

However, in Post No. 135, you write something different concerning the end of the first age. You write that the beginning of the second age is at Christ's first advent. So I am asking from you when does the first age begin and when does it end? When does the second age begin and when does it end?

You are confusing two different concepts. The first indication of an event in this second age in Rev. 12 is verse 5.

See Post No. 105 for the end of the first age. See also 2 Pet. 3:5-7.

 

[Watchman_2]

The kind of dollars is another issue. The person has to have the mark - not the type of dollars - to buy or sell. How does the clerk detect the mark on the "right" hand, without it being something physical, such as a tattoo or chip?

The clerk does not have to detect any mark as the mark is not physical at all. See Rev. 16:1. Those that are deceived have the mark. The 'right hand' is symbolic of doing the beast's work [some will be delivering up undeceived Christians].

I don't know why you keep asking the same question -- the answer is always the same.

 

[LastSeven]

The clerk does not have to detect any mark as the mark is not physical at all. See Rev. 16:1.

Revelation 16:1?

Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels "Go, pour out the seven bowls of God's wrath on the earth".

How does that prove the mark is not physical? Did you mistype the chapter or verse number?

 

[Douggg]

You are confusing two different concepts. The first indication of an event in this second age in Rev. 12 is verse 5.

See Post No. 105 for the end of the first age. See also 2 Pet. 3:5-7.

You wrote that the first age ended with a flood.... but the beginning of the second age was the advent of Christ. I have highlighted what you wrote in blue.

If the flood ended the first age and the advent of Christ started the second age, you have a gap between the first age and the second age of thousands of years. I can't even get from you what you are calling the second age, and why.

You seem to be saying that there was a prior earth to the Adam and Eve earth. That prior earth, which according to your position, got destroyed by a flood before the Adam and Eve earth, that you are calling "the first age"?

I am not getting straight answers from you. Don't reply with instructions for me to go read a passage in the bible thinking that is sufficient. Explane your first age and second age in plain simple English without all the playing around.

I, like everyone else here, am growing weary with your condescending remarks - one more and I am going to do some heavy duty complaining to the moderators.

What marks the beginning of this second age in Rev. 12?? It is v. 5 -Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

[POSTIOS]

No -- you are the furthest thing from sincere.

prove it...i am sincere. YOU are the one using circular logic...

I am a SC student for many years, and Iam not believing any man, if I think their theory does not line up withthe Word of God.

in this case, your explanaition of vial one does not line up with Rev13 and its explanaition of when ther mark is dealt, and who deals it and who is worshipped.

hope u understand.
u are in error.

You don't agree with PM's teaching that 666 stands for the 6th seal [chronologically], the 6th trump, and the 6th vial.

I have repeatedly said that I do.
Believing and proving are two different things.

His students usually believe everything he says regardless...even about 1981.
but you did not...you questioned that, and ammended his math, rightly or wrongly.


i feel that as most all symbology found in Rev is seen in the OT, that 666 would follow suit...

now, do we have any 666 symbols in the OT watchman2. yes we do, yet you chastize me for looking into them.

Yet, you have not provided the 665 events which one would need to 'count' in order to support your belief.

not my belief...you are the one that brought this count 665 events into play, not I.
I dont know where that line of thought even comes from...except you keep repeating it.

If you are never going to acknowledge your error regarding 666, just say so.

huh...what error. u are the one saying count 665 events. not me.
you are the one that says Satan is not here defacto in vial 1. lol.

if you are going to acknowledge your error regarding the first vial, just say so.

I don't care what you believe -- it is your right to believe as you see fit.

glad you see it that way.
but I care...I care what everyone believes.
hence the planting of seeds...

if I did not care, perhaps my attitude woud be more like yours.

I just don't want to waste time trying to educate a person that is unedifiable.

but in this cse, it is YOU that needs the edification.
vial one proves Satan is here defacto when it is poured.

and again, vial one being poured in the time, times, half a time,
does not cancel out Satan being the subject of the 6th vial, 6th trump and 6th seal chronologically.

 

[Douggg]

The clerk does not have to detect any mark as the mark is not physical at all. See Rev. 16:1. Those that are deceived have the mark. The 'right hand' is symbolic of doing the beast's work [some will be delivering up undeceived Christians].

I don't know why you keep asking the same question -- the answer is always the same.

I am not asking you what the "right hand" is symbolic of. The store clerk isn't going to have a debate over bible symbolism with the customer. The store clerk has to detect physical evidence on the person, before the clerk is going to sell the merchandise.

I am asking you the same question because the clerk in the store is not going to be able to read someone's mind. When a person walks into Walmart, to the store clerk they are a complete stranger. The clerk doesn't know what the person's position is on the rapture. The clerk cannot read their mind. A detectable mark has to be presented in order to buy the merchandise.

A person cannot buy or sell without the mark in the right hand. The store clerk has to be able to detect a mark by sight or by some electronic device.

 

[POSTIOS]

Doug,
the mark is symbolic, as seen in Ex13, Deut6 and Deut11. (mark between the eyes and in the right hand.
it was not a physical mark then.

and the mark was based off of remembering where we came from and who got us there. God.
itis based off of who you worship, keeping the first commandment.

the mark of the beast is the same...who worships him,
who breaks the first commandment and worships him.



if there is a world currency, then simply, any Sealed Christian elect will not use it, regardless.
there will be NO other form of currency.
so if someone does use it, then theyare not the sealed elect.

the sealed elect will know better.
they can store preserved food, or barter with whatever they want to, but they will not use the nwo currency.


no tattoo or chip required.
either one uses the money or one does not.

iow, the store cleark will not be |scanning| for anything...
but the store clerk will only accept the NWO currency, not USA dollars etc.

if one uses the NWO currency, then one has the mark.