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Arminians, why are you Arminian?

twin1954

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MAN-CENTERED THEOLOGY = DOCTRINES OF MEN = DOCTRINES OF CALVIN AND AUGUSTINE.
No, man centered religion is the theology that builds everything around man and his will. The Doctrines of Grace are the doctrines of the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, Peter, John and the rest of the Apostles according to the Scriptures. They are centered on God in Christ and glorify Him alone.
 
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twin1954

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Why do you keep repeating this already refuted point? If God knows all things from eternity, then he does not learn about anything. There was never a time He did not know all things.
Because it hasn't actually been refuted it has only been denied. If He chose based on His foresight then the only conclusion is that He learned from it. He saw something that He didn't know before He foresaw.
 
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Job8

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By the way, there is also a pretty hot debate out there among Calvinists concerning whether or not John Calvin even held to limited atonement.
Whether or not Calvinists are debating this (and in fact Calvin did recognize unlimited atonement but refused to accept its logical conclusion), discussing Scripture with committed Calvinists is a dead end. They are so blinded by their man-made doctrine that they simply refuse to see what the Bible really says.
 
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Job8

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No, man centered religion is the theology that builds everything around man and his will. The Doctrines of Grace are the doctrines of the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, Peter, John and the rest of the Apostles according to the Scriptures. They are centered on God in Christ and glorify Him alone.
Not at all. Quite the opposite. Since you blatantly oppose God's Word, you blatantly oppose God.
 
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twin1954

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Whether or not Calvinists are debating this (and in fact Calvin did recognize unlimited atonement but refused to accept its logical conclusion), discussing Scripture with committed Calvinists is a dead end. They are so blinded by their man-made doctrine that they simply refuse to see what the Bible really says.
When the Spirit opens your eyes and gives you understanding in the Scriptures why would you ever want to go back to the natural understanding of the free will works religionist? Blindness is looking at the Scriptures with the natural man centered understanding and believing you had something to do with your salvation.
 
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twin1954

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Not at all. Quite the opposite. Since you blatantly oppose God's Word, you blatantly oppose God.
We do not oppose God's word, in fact we are the ones who truly understand it and that is why we give all the glory to the One to whom it belongs, we oppose those who twist and use the Word in order to make man his own savior by his will.
 
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kangaroodort

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We do not oppose God's word, in fact we are the ones who truly understand it and that is why we give all the glory to the One to whom it belongs, we oppose those who twist and use the Word in order to make man his own savior by his will.
No, man centered religion is the theology that builds everything around man and his will.
Then why do you call Arminianism man centered, since it does nothing of the sort?
 
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kangaroodort

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Because it hasn't actually been refuted it has only been denied. If He chose based on His foresight then the only conclusion is that He learned from it. He saw something that He didn't know before He foresaw.
Sorry, that assertion just does not follow at all.
 
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kangaroodort

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We may plan to avoid temptation, but it matters not. What matters is God's plan for us to avoid temptation. Matthew 6:13; Proverbs 16:9
So God is not faithful to provide a way of escape so we can endure the temptation, even though Paul says otherwise? So God really just provided the illusion of escape while causing those who sin to sin in accordance with His plan? OK, so what Paul meant was that God would provide the illusion of escape under the guise of enabling the believer to bear the temptation while really he is the one who causes the believer to sin in accordance with His plan for them to not resist temptation? Man, so hard to see that it in the text. Glad you are here to clear things up. ;-)
 
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Leevo

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The problem with this is that it makes God to learn something from His foreknowledge and respond to what He learns. That makes God's omniscience a partial omniscience and makes His to change with what He learns. We know from the Scriptures that isn't true. It is actually akin to open theism.

He already knew, therefore he did not learn.
 
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Leevo

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We do not oppose God's word, in fact we are the ones who truly understand it and that is why we give all the glory to the One to whom it belongs, we oppose those who twist and use the Word in order to make man his own savior by his will.

Straw Man...
 
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Job8

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We do not oppose God's word, in fact we are the ones who truly understand it and that is why we give all the glory to the One to whom it belongs, we oppose those who twist and use the Word in order to make man his own savior by his will.
A person gives God the glory only when he does not argue with God or make Scripture say something other than what it says. So please tells us if the Philippian jailer became his own savior, since at one moment he wanted to commit suicide, the next moment he wanted to know what he must do to be saved, and the next moment he showed that he had been saved? (Acts 16:27-34)

And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
 
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kangaroodort

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A person gives God the glory only when he does not argue with God or make Scripture say something other than what it says. So please tells us if the Philippian jailer became his own savior, since at one moment he wanted to commit suicide, the next moment he wanted to know what he must do to be saved, and the next moment he showed that he had been saved? (Acts 16:27-34)

And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
Right. Paul should have said, "Do something? Don't you realize how man-centered that is? You can't do anything to be saved, and if you could it would make you a self-savior and mean that you were on the throne instead of God! What, are you trying to steal God's glory or something?!" Strange. But of course trusting in Christ gives God all the glory as it acknowledges that we are helpless to save ourselves and for that reason need to trust in, rely on, depend on Christ to save us. That's why faith is the perfect condition for receiving the gift of salvation from the hand of God. It removes all boasting from the one who trusts and gives all the glory to the One trusted. God is so wise.
 
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royal priest

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So God is not faithful to provide a way of escape so we can endure the temptation, even though Paul says otherwise? So God really just provided the illusion of escape while causing those who sin to sin in accordance with His plan? OK, so what Paul meant was that God would provide the illusion of escape under the guise of enabling the believer to bear the temptation while really he is the one who causes the believer to sin in accordance with His plan for them to not resist temptation? Man, so hard to see that it in the text. Glad you are here to clear things up. ;-)
The way of escape is always there. What makes the difference is whether or not God leads us down that path or into temptation. Grace and corruption reside together in the believer's heart. God will use temptation to reveal this to us. In Abraham's case, God manifested the grace of faith that was in his heart. Genesis 22:1 In King Hezekiah's case, God manifested the sin of corruption residing in his heart. The way of escape was open to both, but only Abraham escaped through it.
 
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twin1954

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A person gives God the glory only when he does not argue with God or make Scripture say something other than what it says. So please tells us if the Philippian jailer became his own savior, since at one moment he wanted to commit suicide, the next moment he wanted to know what he must do to be saved, and the next moment he showed that he had been saved? (Acts 16:27-34)

And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
The jailor asked the natural question that all men ask, what is it that I can do to save myself. Paul and Silas told him what he needed at the time and later they spoke to him the word of God as it is in Christ as we know they always did by the examples of their preaching we have recorded. It is obvious that they didn't tell him to save himself by exercising his free will. No they obviously told him about the person and accomplished work of Christ and the sign to all creation that it is finished and we are accepted of God by His resurrection. You read far too much into passages and use them as proof texts to bolster your pretexts.
 
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twin1954

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Sorry, that assertion just does not follow at all.
An actual rebuttal would include the logic that shows it doesn't follow. What you have given is nothing but an assertion not a reasonable response. Prove that it doesn't follow instead of just asserting it.
 
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twin1954

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Or, He always knew, therefore he did not learn.
If that is the cased then He didn't choose based on His foreknowledge did He? If He chose, as you say, because He always knew then how is it that He saw who would believe according to His foreknowledge? If He always knew, according to your stance, then how is it that He made a decision based on what He saw? I would agree that He always knew but it was because He purposed and decreed it not because He looked and saw. If He looked and saw what man would do or even always knew what man would do it still rests on the fact that He chose because He learned something from His knowledge and chose based on that knowledge. According to your theology He chose because He saw what man would do which still makes man his own savior. No way around it.

You did something that others did not which makes the whole difference in whether you are saved or not and it doesn't matter whether God always knew that you would or saw by foresight that you would. That makes your destiny to be by your will not by God's grace.
 
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